Difference between revisions of "User talk:Matusm"

Revision as of 02:56, 9 May 2020

Thank you...

Thank you for using my information I added, but modifying it to be more relevant on the darkfang shield page, and also thank you for the work you do in updating the wiki. --Cdst16 (talk) 00:20, 24 April 2017 (PDT)

Heh, you're welcome! I just tried to fix what I knew I was able to fix. I'm quite new here. I've started with editing here at the New Year's Eve, but I've managed to notice few things here and there, since. I mostly copy and paste from already existing pages. So if I ever attempt to create a page with my own words, feel free to check it and rewrite what's needed. It's very likely that it will have some flaws as English isn't my mother tongue. You've probably noticed it already. :) --Matusm (talk) 04:40, 24 April 2017 (PDT)

Thanks for all of your work on the wiki. For example, just when I think, "Golden Slime Casino needs updating to mention the current event," you've already done it. Jdavis (talk) 13:06, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

You're welcome! I try to prioritize edits regarding recent changes/events and then move back in time in a sense. --Matusm (talk) 18:10, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

Squall Caller images

We can now create the Squall Caller pages; I made most of them but don't know how to create the equipped and icon images. I noticed you added them for the other Raider items, so it would be nice if you could add them for the Caller quickly too so Cronus can re-blacklist it. --Snarbylord (talk) 13:17, 26 July 2017 (PDT)

I was just about to upload them. I've got tooltip image from earlier and icon was uploaded straight from game files. Thank you for your work. --Matusm (talk) 13:25, 26 July 2017 (PDT)

Re: Inconsistent linking to Hunter costumes

Hello! The issue I'm trying to solve regards broken links when attempting to Direct Link to a Hunter Costume that was only available in the Hunter 2016 box. You can see a few red links for Round Helm, Flak Jacket, ect. here: Hunter Prize Box. This issue is also preventing the Hunter category from displaying Hunter 2016 only costumes. --CassiusBWiki (talk) 19:19, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

That's probably because there are some links that weren't created yet. You see, links on Prize Box pages lead to a page named after that item (for example, clicking on Hunter Round Helm leads to Hunter Round Helm page). These pages are usually redirects to a collective page for similar items (like Round Helm), so you immediatelly end up on that page instead. I believe this is the one step you have missed. If you have been linked through a redirect, it is always mentioned at the top of the destination page.

Also, categories right now are quite broken. Only categorized files show up in the list, among other issues. Normal pages used to show on the category pages, but after Grey Havens updated the wiki software, new pages won't add themselves there, so only old pages remain in the list. A nice example would be this category, which was created after the update: Category:Tawny-Themed. So while it's true the costumes aren't there because of the missing links, they won't appear there even after they will be created. --Matusm (talk) 20:00, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing out the redirect pages, for some reason I was under the impression they were handled dynamically. A pity about the categories however. I wonder why I was able to get Garnet Node Container on the Garnet Category page, but nothing else. Bad job queue handling? Oh well, nothing us users can do about it. --CassiusBWiki (talk) 01:08, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Images can be added to categories for some reason. That's why accessories work. Still, it needs some time to show up I think. --Matusm (talk) 10:33, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Owlite box stuffs

Hey, I happen to have Dusky Owlite Wand and Dusky Owlite Pipe. Hit me up in-game if you wanna get pics of em. Silverhawkes (talk) 11:01, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

Hey, i just forgot how to do APNGs with transparency... lol

I remember i did it with photoshop, i took the video, cut it in photoshop with the little transparencies in the corners but the "save" part its what i forgot... I dont remember using APNG anime maker either. I tried but when im saving the bunch of imgs to put in the APNGanimemaker they dont have transparency sooooo i dunno what to do. I wanted to help from time to time with items if i happen to find them in the AH. U can text me in game too, im Jade-Hikaru [I even forgot how to put the time-mark when leaving a msg here haha so im doing it manually] HikaruFer

I actually tried really hard to avoid Photoshop and make most of my images only using free tools. :D For animations, I mostly used FFmpeg and APNG Assembler, but never Photoshop. So I did a quick search about how would you do it in Photoshop and found something about Render Video option and then using APNG Assembler ([1]), but I don't know if it'll help. I can help you make animations the way how I made mine if you want, but it's basically just converting video to frames with corners, deleting some images from beginning and end to make a smooth loop and turning this loop into an animation. I'm Nitronicx in game, but I log in usually just for a few minutes, so you probably won't catch me online. (The signature thing is --~~~~, there's also button for it in the editor.) --Matusm (talk) 23:15, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

Hey, well, since i have it i use it haha, but if its not ur method its okay. I would like to learn with free tool cuz i already have some footage (like, 3 or 5 tooltips) oh and i use Fraps to capture. I tried with PSD (photoshop) and it does give me the frames, problem is it doesnt add the cut in the corners and while in the program, it shows. Technically speaking i can cut the corners in each frame but im sure theres an easy way for that just that i dont know yet haha. When u have the time i would love to learn how :D Thx! --HikaruFer (talk) 06:25, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

First I use FFmpeg to turn video into pictures. I can also tell it to add the transparent corners right away by using a greyscale image which describes the alpha channel (it's white image with black corners, black pixels will be made transparent). The command for that is ffmpeg -hide_banner -i video.avi -i alpha.png -lavfi 'crop=201:222:9:151, alphamerge' folder/%3d.png. The arguments for crop are crop=width:height:x:y, x and y are coordinates of the top-left-most pixel of the cropped image. %3d means the pictures will be named 001.png, 002.png, etc.

Then I simply use image viewer for comparing the first and last frames of the would-be animation and delete surplus frames.

Once I'm satisfied with the loop, I use APNG Assembler to make the animation. There are both GUI and CLI versions of the program.

When the animation is too big, I remove some frames (or rather copy them to another folder, so I can keep the original loop). I made a small script for that. However when I had to use framerate below 20 (or 15?), I rather used tinypng.com. TinyPNG limits the number of colors to 256, but with such low framerates, more smoothness is in my opinion worth the not very noticable loss in colors.

You can also make animation stright from the video with FFmpeg. The command for that would be ffmpeg -hide_banner -i video.avi -stream_loop -1 -i alpha.png -lavfi 'crop=201:222:9:151, alphamerge' -plays 0 -r 20 -ss 3 -t 5.33 animation.apng. -plays is the number of loops (0 = infinite), -r is the resulting framerate, -ss means how many seconds should be skipped from the start, -t is the length of the animation. However, the animation may have some flaws. I noticed that FFmpeg duplicates the first frame of the animation (if I remember correctly). Also in some newer version the -stream_loop argument stopped working properly. That's why I use APNG Assembler instead of FFmpeg for making the animation. Maybe these problems are fixed now, but I stuck with the old version I first downloaded.

There's also a program called TweakPNG. It displays structure of your PNG files. May be useful sometimes.

By the way, it's been quite a long time since my last SK animated tooltip. :D

But still, I'd like to help you with your Photoshop. I still have it, too. What specifically is the problem or what are you doing that doesn't work? When I used to crop images in Photoshop, I realized I can use the "Create clipping mask" option to apply the cropped corners to all other images. I also looked at that "Render video" option. I had to change the alpha channel setting at the bottom to get images with transparency. --Matusm (talk) 23:20, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

I realized i never replied to this D: sorry. I did a few tests and i dunno if u noticed but i was able to make the APNGs :D. Thx a lot! I figured how to make it in photoshop thx to ur explaination, the alpha channel's option was disabled in my save settings so its no surprise the mask/transparency didnt work the first time i tried, also, with the examples of some of ur uploading i check the frames and the time to i eneded up close to what u do too :D (80 frames + 4~5secs). I found a apng maker online ([[2]]) which seems to work for me, added the delay and done~ some of them ended up being more than 2mb but the tinypng u give me worked~ most of the time it ends up being less than 1mb but dunno why with armor's tooltip always pass the 2mb mark. HikaruFer (talk) 10:13, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Thx for fixing my code :D

You easily did what i was trying to do hahaha. Thx for that :D. Oh and since im here, do u think we should link in the name or in the img (the drop)? I was going for just link in img but dunno what u think looks better~ HikaruFer (talk) 04:14, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

To be honest, your first version of the template looks working, even though that #switch command was redundant. :D And about the links: I thought you wanted to have the link in the text and just didn't know how to do it in the template. So I added it there, just in case. My original intention was that you could remove it, if you wanted to have it without the link.

But now that you are asking: I think that if the image is a link, the text should also be a link. Having link only in the icon is almost as having no link, because there's almost no indication that the image leads to another page. And when the image is linked, why not the word, too? There's also option to don't link at all because there's not a whole lot of information on the personal color page and the most important thing, the color, is displayed in the icon. But a person new to the game / wiki could find the link useful. So I'm for putting the link both in the word and in the image. There's also a small problem that the font changes to a non-monospace, so I tried to find a fix now and I found I can insert <code> tag inside the brackets. So if we end up with this option, I can add this fix in the template.

I also eventually decided that we should write information as simple text instead of overusing those special blocks of text on the file pages. That's partially why my latest images don't use those white blocks. The other part of that reason is the aforementioned change in fonts and that having 3 different "levels" for image information (yellow block for "accessory image" stuff, white block for mentions and regular text for personal color note) is a bit too much. But I don't actually mind that much and I'm fine with using those white blocks. --Matusm (talk) 01:38, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

Oh then we can leave the link as it is now~ U made a good point of "not knowing the image links" which i wasnt sure cuz im used to read the link before clicking but not everyone does that. I dont understand the "non-monospace" u mantion tho :O.

As for the simple text i find the white block useful cuz the normal text (without the two spaces) seems to be lost if u are not specifically looking for it (unless its different in mobile?) but with the white block it pops out better (imo), i wanted the template:pc cuz sometimes i just want to point out "hey, the XcolorX in the image(costume/accessory) is a personal color, not a part of the design" but without the whole template:FileInfo. i use the white box for simple info that i like to be seen and dont get lost under the normal tags xd, i mostly use fileInfo at previews to make it feel like a ingame inspect windows... now that we are talking about it, i find the apng tag too big but its useful cuz thats how i found out i needed an extension to see the animations, maybe we should just leave the normal yellow box with a link (inside same box) to click for the "extensions" yellow box so they dont pop out in every apng? like, just leave them in the "documentation" of the template:apng, to not make a new page for it HikaruFer (talk) 21:51, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

(I'm sure I'm not using some terms properly, but) Monospaced font is a font where each letter has the same width. I was talking about example link (default behaviour) versus example link (requires some additional work).

I see the white box a bit like "a power you shouldn't use". If you make everything stand out, what really does? Though, now I thought about it for a while, even if we were to remove all those boxes and attempt to structure it as a regular page, there would still be the image and file history table, 2 "boxes" which you cannot get rid of and between which you are sqeezing some boring text. And there would also be those image details right above your text, which would look very similar to it (because it is just text) and which are generally overlooked. So I guess avoiding it isn't to much benefit. :D The white box does stand out and differentiates itself from the others after all.

I find the APNG tag too big as well. I'm fine with your solution. Adding <noinclude> around the "Don't see the animation?" box would probably be enough and you wouldn't even need to create the documentation page. --Matusm (talk) 19:20, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

Volcanic Plate Helm (normal and costume) error

Hi again~ i noticed theres a problem i dont know how to fix since it involves a big template (Template:CostumeTable/Recolors, which btw, it amaze me what u did with it, i love it) so the error its in Volcanic Plate Helm (Costume), the one in the Volcanic Prize Box its okay, it shows the actual recolor (this one), but the one in the page shows the crafable one (this) so, its there a way to add some kind of exception to the template or it is too much? Its not a big problem tbh, so far, its the only recolor item i see it have problems with the table so if its going to be a bother, we can leave it like that HikaruFer (talk) 04:19, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

It took me a small while to familiarize myself again with the template, but yes, it just needed a small exception for Plate Helm/Mail. Even if it couldn't be done easily I would brute-force it somehow. :D I just told it to append "(Costume)" at the end. But then it broke the link for the image. Basically, it seems the parameter with the name of the item was passed to the template with a newline at the end (i.e. literaly everything between the two pipe | symbols was passed). This can be fixed in a multitude of ways. I fixed it on the costume pages because I found that easier. If I were to fix it in the template, I could have changed the switch command I initially added, to replace the name completely. Or I could make the first parameter named and thus force using the equals sign form (e.g. |name=thing instead of |thing). But we are talking about only 20 pages that likely nobody will need to touch, so I don't know. If you think some of these approaches would be better, feel free to tell me and I'll change it.

By the way, if you'll need to use the #switch, #if etc. functions, I recommend this page: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Extension:ParserFunctions --Matusm (talk) 16:36, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

I see what u did and it looks perfect to me~ I think its safe to say it can stay that way :D, also, i had not notice the Mail page had the same problem.

Im gonna check the page u give me :D, im extremely new to codes, i think around 2015 i used to do a few test since Novaster was doing many of the templates so i analyzed them but its been almost 5 years since then and i think i forgot all for not practice it xd. I go more for the organization, doing/capturing images, and "clean" things here and there, which btw, i havent done test for the APNG yet but im on it~ Already have many recorded to test :D". Its funny cuz i always come back to help whenever i have a stressful time, doing these things help me relax~ Thx for fixing the issue and explain me what u did and how :D. Have a nice day~ HikaruFer (talk) 01:14, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

Winter's Edge's adquisition issue

Hello again~ This time i noticed a problem with the "Template:Reskin/Acquisition" for the Winter's Edge. it doesnt show up. I think its for the ' in the url/name? Not sure. I was hoping i would just add |name without ' but that doesnt seem how the template works so whevenver u have a chance to look it up would be nice. Thx again! Have a nice day/night~ HikaruFer (talk) 10:19, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Yes, seems it was the '. I had to use a HTML escape (I think that's how it's called). I checked the other Acquisition templates if there's not the same issue and it seems Winter's Edge is the only item (aside from Accessories) that has ' in the name. :D You're welcome, I like helping. Have a nice day/night, too. :) --Matusm (talk) 18:32, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Yay~ :D. I used %27 instead to test cuz thats how my browser displayed the ' xd. HikaruFer (talk) 01:20, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

ShadowTech long names are messing with the table

Hello again~ hope u are fine :D. I write u this time cuz i have encountered a problem i have absolutely no idea of how to fix, like, zero clue lol. So i will leave it at ur hands plz!
The problem (imo) its that the long names like ShadowTech Orange are an issue in the "hoover text". I noticed the table at the prize box its fine cuz it lack hoover text (thats how u called it right? when u put the mouse above an image and it show a text) but on the list's tables they are and its where the images are getting pushed up like they were longer than what they are. All visuals are the same size but in cases like

• Airbraker Shield (costume) (only Orange)
• Down Puffer (Unzipped) (all *missing blue*)
• Handy Propellors (Green and Orange)
• Pompom Snow Hat (all *missing green*)
• Floppy Beach Hat (Green and Orange)
• Shoulder Booster (Green and Orange *missing Blue and Pink*)

Its where u can see the problem. I say its the long name since Orange have 6 letters, followed by Green with 5 and then Pink and Blue with 4. In the case of items with already a long name, adding the ShadowTech COLOR make the name even longer and somehow seems that push the visual up. I test it in the Airbreak Shield and confirmed its not an issue of the entry (maybe an added space or something) and it happened in the accesory's table too. I will leave u with the decision on how to fix and the best solution. My opinion on this (if im correct with the long names) its erasing the hoover text completely but its sad that we get to erase that when it only affects a few items. Its still up to u~ Have a nice day! HikaruFer (talk) 19:48, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Turns out it's the anchor text and that this text also "centers" the icon. :D There's this {{anchor}} template that generates the HTML anchor and also writes the text of the anchor. This text was made smaller and invisible in the table template, but invisible text still affects the layout (it physically takes some place). It's size was changed to 1%, but Google Chrome didn't make the text 1% small, only something that looks like 50%. So I changed the size from 1% to 1px and that works fine. It's rather hacky solution that doesn't solve the problem itself, but it's fine for now. Until they release a name 5 times longer than the current longest name. :D

I have a question though. I use Mozilla Firefox and it doesn't have this problem with 1% text that Chrome has. Similar invisible text is also before the "This accessory is like the others." text (but only for the accessory table) and it pushes it a bit to the right (compare with "Initial release:" below it). Do you know if Chrome always did this or is it something recent? I'm asking just to know if this is something I can expect to be fixed soon or it's a stable "feature" of Chrome.

I'll put the table here with the invisible text made visible. Just to see if they eventually fix it in Chrome or not.

Abbr. Name	Visual	Acquisition	Notes
ShadowTech Orange Shoulder Booster ShadowTech Orange		ShadowTech Prize Box	zThis accessory is like the others. It does not have different textures or special effects. Initial release: 2019.22 11 December 2019

--Matusm (talk) 22:33, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Ohhh i thought i was crazy! I noticed shadowtech's icons entries being sightly pushed down but i thought that was only my imagination due the table's entry not being filled completely with the visuals so i just ignored since others seem to be "centered" and have visuals. I didnt knew about this anchor text, its this where the redirects go? Like, i always wondered where the info was, i knew that putting "Wings#Hallow Wings" makes the page load at the specific section "hallow wings" but thought they worked different so there wouldnt be a need of a bar with "Hallow Wings" in it, seems like that anchor text was were the info was right? like a fake-bar :O?

As for the another anchor text at the notes "This acc is like the others blahblah" i noticed it too! I always use chrome and, at least for the last 4 weeks, that little odd space before "this" has been there, i thought it was some sort of " : " cuz Novaster liked it that way or maybe it was so close to the border that it would look weird and that avoid it? I would be lying if i said its been there since the beginning (2014~2015 when i helped with the wikia) cuz i dont have that good memory. Im curious now, i understand why the first anchor text (the name of the item) would be there, for redirects mostly correct? but why the little "z", what good it does being there, whats the purpose xd? -HikaruFer (talk) 08:12, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

P.D: ahaha i went to internet explorer (since i dont have firefox) and i cannot see it there xd. Here, in chrome, i can see all the text and even the little z but there (Explorer) its gone, its funny. I would screenshot it but u have chrome right? Dunno how u noticed it was a problem of chrome since u see this in firefox :O?

The #Hallow_Wings actually jumps to the HTML element with id="Hallow Wings". The additional text doesn't need to be there. But in this case the text helps with sorting the table. Without it, it would sort the table by the icon names, which would work almost just as well since the file names are consistent, but it shouldn't be relied upon. I was going to say that the "z" is completely unnecessary and that maybe it's there because of the border just as you said, but no, I just realized it's likely again because of sorting, so that the special items rise to the top when you sort the Notes column and the ones with default text sink to the bottom.

The newer method of manually controling the sorting is via data-sort-value="word" attributes. I may change the tables in the future to use this instead of the invisible text, but I don't know, maybe I'll eventually be fine with invisible text, too. :D

I still have Chrome from when I had HTML and CSS in school. There are small differences between how different browsers render pages, so I had more browsers for that reason. When I couldn't see the issue in Firefox, I thought that maybe I'll see it in Chrome. Chrome is more popular anyways, so there was a good chance this is the browser you have used. :D If the problem was in different browser however, I probably wouldn't find it.

And yes, the 1% text is so small it's effectively invisible. 1px text is actually much bigger than 1% text. :D --Matusm (talk) 11:03, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

Ohh right the sorting! I forgot about that and i thought the abbrev. sorting was thx to the icon name too~ For now the 1px works nicely in chrome. This is my only browser since im confortable and i dont work with HTML+CCS, if i notice the table u used in here change i will tell u~ Its curious seeing that IE have no problem with 1% but Chrome does. Thx for ur explanation :D, the invisible text and anchor text was something new for me~ -HikaruFer (talk) 20:59, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

Monster List

Hello there! Hope u are doing fine~ This time i write u cuz im wondering, can we implement this list format? I found it and omg its so pretty i love it. I know it was Novaster's project and tbh i cannot work that much into it, im mostly for consistency, updating images, tags, etc, so i want so much to add that list to the main monster page buuuuut dunno, i barely enter the wiki edit's forums so maybe u have more info on this than me cuz i cannot read so many messages in detail to figure out what was the whole project about and why they didnt do it in the main page. See u around, take care :) HikaruFER 03:42, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Hi! I don't know much about it either. I think they didn't finish it simply because they didn't have time to work on the wiki anymore, but that's only my guess. I can help if you're going to implement it, thought I'd be careful whether the new list will improve the page or not. --Matusm (talk) 14:03, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Ah i think it will, i have never like the monster organization tbh, the main list (Monster) looks so... ghostly xd, sometimes i cant remember the name of the mob im looking so im just like "well, its a slime so... *click every single link on the slime family so i can see the images*", i dunno, maybe cuz im more for the visual too?. Basically, what they did seems nice to me, i can suggest a few little changes tho, so we can end up with something like this: (every dot is a new section and/or subsection)

Dunno what you think? i think it would look pretty nice. If the completed list of general mobs its too long we can add a "hide/show" template like those in the prize boxes or list of sets, dont think its neccesary but its an option. Depending if this implementation works nicely, i would like to make a "mod" of the Template:MonsterList to organize the monster type pages, example: like Wolver, it would look like the one in the sandbox but eliminating the family, type, and notes column and adding new ones like abilities, location, drops, and description. Tell me ur thoughts :D HikaruFER 02:22, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

You can try doing it then. Sorry I didn't look much into it, I also need to do homework for school, so I probably won't help you much with it. But if you'll need help with something small like modifying a template, I'll gladly help. I can't be fully committed to school anyway. :P Procrastination I guess.

I think it'll be good idea to first do it on the Sandbox page and move it to the Monster page once it's complete. You can also keep the original draft of the page if you want and just add a new section above it. --Matusm (talk) 13:05, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

Okk i will do that :D, i also found about this Template:Location that will allow me to link with cute tiny icons in the "location" of mobs but ofc i need to test it. Im still understanding what the numbers are for but so far i looked for examples and know which numbers allow me the things i want xd.

Depends on how good or bad my internet is i will start in the sandbox and then move to the main page :). If i need help with any template (a common issue for me xd) i will let u know~ im also kind of procrastinating too hahaha, not with school tho. Good luck with ur subjects :D --HikaruFER 14:29, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. :) --Matusm (talk) 14:37, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

Monster List experiments

Hello again~ Today i put the whole mob list (except for event only mobs) in the sandbox in case u want to check it~ I want to ask you to add a switch for boss and miniboss, right now Razwog link goes to "Scorcher#Razwog" instead of the main page... i know i can fix this if i dont introduce a "type" (like main bosses, vanaduke, etc) but i want to keep the type if possible :). The switch would be "if the type is boss (and/or miniboss) the link would be direct, not TYPE#name". Im terrible with switches unless i can copy-paste from another segment of the template xd and this is not the case haha. When you have a moment help me with that plz ^^. If isnt posible (for whatever reason) i can just erase the type in mobs~ Tc! P.D: Oh and look what i found Mecha Knight (check the discussion tab) :D, looks like i can "update" the mob individual pages since theres already a template for it :0! --HikaruFER 10:16, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Alright, done! --Matusm (talk) 14:31, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

As for how the page looks... I'm still not entirely sold on the idea. The list turned out to be really long (it's rather surprising, I wouldn't say SK has so many different enemies) and families buried deeper down (like Undead, pun intended) take a while to scroll to. It feels relatively empty considering how big it looks (maybe thanks to the mostly empty Notes column) and I personally also find some of the details unnecessary, such as statuses, classes (which are for some reason still alien to me even after all this time) and listing all variants of each mob (and without this the type column probably wouldn't be neccessary, too). This is something I like about the current Monster page, that it focuses on the general types and doesn't list every single enemy. I'm also not a big fan of the "Same appearance" text, but I'm not sure how to fix that. On the other hand, I can imagine the list being useful to have in the form it is now. I don't think the list is bad despite all the criticism I had. I'm just not sure if it should replace what's currently on the page.

The Mecha Knight page looks good, I like it. :D --Matusm (talk) 00:26, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

First of all, thx for the help with the template :). Now, for the other, im gonna "bullet" every "topic" xd haha:

• Yeah i didnt notice how much monsters SK had till i put them all together in the same page xd.
• As for the notes, yeah, seems like they wanted to add the release of every mobs but tbh, most of them are since launch (2011-04-04) so i was like "why put the launch date? i know this game had a beta but, well, most of the wiki is based on the launch date forward" only "special" mobs like the boss (royal jelly and vanaduke) should have the launch date but others like, the wolvers, are not that fascinanting imo ofc. Still i tried my best to check for release dates, i actually thought i wouldnt find much but fill many of the notes list :O.
• I didnt know enemies had types till i found the list xd, i mean, it makes sense, every game have enemy types to dont fall into chaos but as the comment from the forum said, knowing or not the type of the monster doesnt affect much the gameplay.
• The same appearance text is something i been trying to think how to fix but i have been thinking about it for a week and nothing comes up, seems there is no much options tho :(.
• I do think the list its too big now that i put every general monster together but its kind of cool seem them together in a big sortable list, i was having fun checking every mob by status or type with visual examples of each, so with ur feedback, i have an idea of making a subpage like "Monster/All" so it doesnt mess with the main page (Monster) but ppl have the option to look at all the monster at once, this subpage will have the list merged together, so boss, oddities, rare, obsolete, would be sortable with the general mobs too (i would just add in notes the "This monster is no longer in-game" for the obsolete entries) and the link (not showhide, just link) would be in the main monster page allowing users to check the list if they want to or not. As you said, the list isnt bad but isnt better than the compress list the monster page have. I thought it would but after having every mob, yeah, its too big and too many empty notes too xd. So what do u think :)?
• About the Mecha Knight's talk page: I found it after thinking "if i update the monster individual page, the template would be called "MonsterInfo" to follow the pattern" .... "i wonder if theres one named that" and thats how i found the example xd. The only thing i would eliminate would be "(Tier 1 and below)" in the abilities list, i would just leave the (Tier 2 and below) and (Tier 3), that, and have (if can) icons in the "encounter" list. Aside from that, i think the Info and Profile template are good. Do you think i could start using/implementing it?

I think i didnt miss anything right? As for the issue of the monster page, i still think it need some visual of each mob, but like u said, in groups/families/serie instead of every single one. I would test something later in the sandbox in no-template form to see if what i have in mind works or not :) --HikaruFER 01:45, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

I agree pretty much with everything you've said. :D This includes the Monster/All page idea.

I have 2 ideas for updating Monster page with images: replace the links with something similar to Visual Encyclopedia/creature or a simple list like in Exploration with descriptions of the enemies in the last column. The classes (brute, etc.) probably could be implemented somehow in both scenarios. I also have an idea for the "same appearance". You can make the table cells span multiple rows/columns and I thought it could be used somehow, but I don't know how it will impact the sorting. The sorting needs some fixes anyway.

I also have some small objections about the Mecha Knight page. Like you said, the "Tier 1 and below" text, but I think I would also change the "Tier 2 and below" to simply "Tier 2 & 3". Next, I'd replace the descriptions with the unofficial descriptions we have now on the monster pages and reword the defenses section with phrases "Weak/Strong/Neutral to XXX damage". There are some other things (Notes in the profiles, whether or not to use showhides in the Traits and Strategy sections, maybe reorganize the general information) I would change a bit, but I don't have any specific solution for these.

I would wait with implementing the Mecha Knight page. Let's do things one at a time. :D --Matusm (talk) 13:34, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Your idea of the Monster page was kinda what i have in mind but with just a quick example (can be tier 1, 2, or 3), a simple list with "Name (like "Thwacker"), Example (Visual, just one image), Class, and Notes (for etc)" and i think that would be enough since family, no, they will be under "Gremlin Family" and status either since the mecha knight (for example) have all the status... maybe but we will have to add every status so dunno. The sorting in that list (on Monster page) doesnt matter (at least, to me) cuz my main goal is to have a list with a visual of at least one of each type, like the exploration as you said, or like Almire Furniture for the big sorting we would have Monster/All :D.

Oh and about the Mecha Knight's page. Yes, the "Tier 2 & 3" sounds simpler cuz i always forget we are going down on the clockworks xd, the description can be the oldie but good "Notes" to simplify, and hell yeah to reword the defenses haha, it confused me a little but i thought it was for my english, but honestly i like the old "Weak/Strong/Neutral against X damage/attacks" since the "Inflict X damage" are in each mob's "abilities" square.

I like the Traits and Strategy in showhide if they are up in the page but we can change the Strategy to the end of the page without a showhide, the Traits uhm... dunno i dont really care in reading all those traits haha just in particular mobs like a kind of Trivia. The Traits should go up thats for sure but dunno if in showhide or not, for me it would be in an showhide (like it is currently).

If you have time, you should reorganize the talk page of Mecha Knight (or use my sandbox if you want) in the order you feel its better or dunno, what do u suggest me to do :O? for now i just can do the example of the page i was telling you about :) (the no-template one for the monster page family list) oh and i will create the Monster/All since i already but all the entries together --HikaruFER 14:59, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Heh, yes, both the "Tier 1 & below" and "increased/decresed defenses" confused me just the same. I'll do only a quick edit where I change the tiers, defenses and descriptions (I haven't noticed until now that Mecha Knights don't have as good descriptions as some other mobs have :D). I still need to sort out what I want from the other things I've mentioned, but thanks for your feedback.

Hmm... What should I suggest you? :D Continue with whatever you like. Your plan sounds good, too, I have nothing against it. The only thing I could suggest is the one from my previous reply, that we should focus on one thing at a time. Just so we don't end up with lots of unfinished projects. :D

By the way, I played a bit with the "Same appearance" text and added some examples to the Sandbox#"Same appearance" page. From all the experiments I like the "Dashed border" the most. But is it really better than the text? I guess no visuals can convey the information as well as the text. ...What if I write it on the dark background? I'll try that next time. What do you think? Do you have some other idea of what could work or want to suggest different combination of things I did in the list? --Matusm (talk) 18:05, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Funny things I've noticed whlie I was editing:

• The MonsterInfo is a monster.
• I've found old Mecha Knight descriptions. Let's say it's not what I expected. :D I actually haven't read the monster descriptions on the wiki for quite some time. I probably liked them in the past and as time went, I think I've made them sound better in my head than they actually were. --Matusm (talk) 20:09, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

I checked the changes in the example of Mecha Knight and all i have to say its resumed in this image. Im so happy with the new wording, makes my non-english life easier xd. Oh and i laughed at the "MonsferInfo is a monster" too, those funny accidents are cool xd. As for the mecha description, i can see ppl used to have more fun around haha, the Volt Knight's old description its the best, not the best for the wikia i think but the best for my laughs xd. Thats why i was in doubt of adding the current description, some are more detailed, others not much :O.

As for the experiment i think we should keep the only/same appearance image in the Tier 1 (Knockers in this case), i take the tier 1 column like the main when a mob have same appearance in all tiers but asides for that i like how the Menders look in "Empty = Dark" so i think that can stay but for the knockers (same appareance mobs) i think Dashed Border with text looks intereseting, maybe with a mid color instead of the lighter one for the dashed lines and the "same appareance" text? i choose the "with text" over the "without" since i think its needed for the sorting (i was checking that and seems like does help), as for a suggestion uhmm after seeing ur samples i only came out with this one, the knockers square can have a "middle color" between that dark blue and soft blue (imagine the "same appearance" text is in dark blue btw, in the image its in black cuz i was lazy to edit tiny letters xd) cuz if we leave it completely in dark-blue like Menders it gives the idea of only being in Tier 1.

P.D: i just read "This page could easily have a {{main|List of monsters}} instead of being one large page" haha i didnt notice till now, but i prefer the Monster/All name page :O --HikaruFER 02:00, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

P.D 2: Ok i change my mind, maybe the "main" visual for mobs with "all tiers-same appearance" should be the Tier 3 column, cuz, lets face it, almost all players play at Tier 3 so the "same appareance" text should go in tier 1 and tier 2, imo ofc. Plus, check the Monster/All is cool to sort and look at every single mob in-game xd

P.D 3: Also, i did this Monster main page list, basically i did with my whole sandbox a prototype of what i imagine of the list, like, i dont usually create list so... its a rookie work. Tell me what you think. Maybe juuuust maybe we should just add the {{monster|name}} in the main list and leave it as it is? Maybe thats the only visual we should have xd? i dunno haha --HikaruFER 08:09, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Middle color? Thanks. That's probably what I was missing the whole time. I like how it looks. As for having visuals in T1 or T3: hard choice. The T3 column would be more filled, but T1 sounds more logical. I can't decide clearly either, but in such situations, I'm more inclined to choose the more simple and straightforward option, in this case T1.

By the way, the "Same appearance" text is not needed for sorting, there are ways to sort tables independently of what the cells contain. I actually didn't pay any attention to sorting in those examples, just tried to come up with a way of visualizing the same appearance cells better.

Now your Monster main page list. I again have this feeling that the list takes too much space for how little it tells. But I also have another feeling that this feeling will go away after I get used to it, so I don't know. :D I also think the Tier and Release information is unnecessary, but I'm afraid that without them, the list will be too empty. One tiny functional improvement I'd suggest is also linking the image to the page, and the lists could be ordered more or less by the classes (minis, then grunts, brutes, elite, support, giants, minibosses and bosses, or something similar), but these are small things. I think this is a good start.

I'm still curious what some other options look like. One idea I have for this list is adding a short "flavour text" description about what monsters belong in a type, plus some notable creatures that belong there, too, and which someone might be looking for. Something like: "Jellies -- Cube-like gelatinous creatures in all sorts of styles, including small Royal Minis and disguised Baby Mimics". I'm unsure whether the special mentions part is neccessary, thought. I also had an idea of separating the list even more with the classes. In other words, that for each family there would be level 3 headers Grunt, Elite, etc. with their own lists. But there's this obvious problem the lists would be really short, often having only 1 entry and wasting a lot of space. A solution for that would be using a table for each family with classes on the left and images + names stacked next to each other on their appropriate rows (it would look a bit like tier list memes). The names could be under or next to the image. And the last option I'd like to look at is simply mimicing the Visual Encyclopedia/creature style without clearly separating creatures into classes.

I'm sorry I took so long to reply. I likely won't have any time to experiment with the wiki this week. --Matusm (talk) 21:43, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

Dont worry about the late reply :)! I will probably start getting busy next week (i think?) so my wiki-time will be reduced a lot xd, will probably only upload visuals of items i find in AH :O.

Middle colors are always the best savers haha. I thought the text was needed but now that u mention, i forgot about those little "invisible text" we were talking about in the tables, this list doesnt have it in the template and i forgot about that. For my sandbox/monster list, i had the feeling that feeling too but its reasonable since we have so many time seeing a tiny list of monster that every list would look big. I added the Tier and Release to make the table more "list" cuz theres no need to family and status column so it felt like... super weird with just 3 columns xd now that u mention it, i avoided having a "note" in this list but now that u mention it, we can totally add a "Monsters of this type" thing, and name the monsters in that page, like the jelly example u said, Adding "Jelly Cube, Ice Cube, Blast Cube, Royal Mini, and Baby Mimic" <<< for example so ppl can just look for a "keyword" of the monster they are looking, i prefer the order of the list be by class too, so the Gremlin family list would in this order: Knocker, Mortafire, Thwacker, Scorcher, Demo, Stalker, Mender, Razwog, Sputterspark, Herex, and Seerus. Right now they are in alphabetical order and then class order being miniboss first and then boss (Except Treasure Mimic cuz its new).

And about the class list, i think its better to keep the family and then name as priority instead of class since its more of a technical subject than an actually "in-game instrument" dunno if u get me xd? like, theres no benefit in recognizing mobs by class, its much more importan to recognizing the family and as a second option, the name. I do think we can sort/organizing by class ofc~

I think trying the looks of the visual encyclopedia can work too but im not very fan of horizontal list, im actually dunno if what u descirbe would be a horizontal list but thats what my mind made while thinking so i would have to wait and see it in the format haha. Oh and i forgot to mention i added the icon monster to the main list, and, well, it looks "udpated" at least haha, i did a little "mostly aesthetics clean-up" with icons and format text.

Take ur time to reply and to do the experiments, im not in a rush~ Oh and have a nice day/night ^^ cya around :D --HikaruFER 00:14, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

The "Shadow Cloak" issue

Hi again~ When u have the chance, i would like u to help me with templates again haha, i manage to understand "switch"s but "if"s is another thing... xd. The issue is that Shadow Cloak is a disambiguation page since the release of the Shadow Cloak (Costume), so now the link to the Maskeraith second skill is Shadow Cloak (Battle Sprite Ability). In templates like Template:Link+Icon/Skill, Template:SpriteInfo, and Template:SkillInfo is a problem. I wanted to add something like "if the parameter is "Shadow Cloak" it should look like this: [[Shadow Cloak (Battle Sprite Ability)|Shadow Cloak]] instead of [[Shadow Cloak]]" but failed cuz im still trying to understand "if"s xd (Did a test in Link+Icon/Skill's template). So whevener u can plz check those, thx~ --HikaruFER 01:02, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

OK, I added the if-s. I guess Template:SpriteInfo doesn't need a fix anymore, right? I was a bit unsure about how to fix the Shadow Cloak linking because adding the same condition for every link felt to me like not a proper way to do that, but it was the easiest, it works and maybe even was proper. :D

You could've used #switch, but because we have only one case, #ifeq is enough. #ifeq compares 2 strings and if they are same, it prints one thing, if not, it prints the other. #if only checks whether the given string is empty or not, so it was not useful in this situation. It's a bit of a trap. :D

I saw you've also stumbled upon another issue: using "|" in a template parameter. Most of the time you can't simply write "|" because wiki will think it's the end of the parameter and that another parameter starts afterwards. So in such case, use {{!}}. It's a template that simply writes "|", but wiki won't read it as the "next argument mark" (it will read it like that a bit later). Example:

• [[a {{#switch: {{{1}}} | 1 = b|c}} d]] -> [[a b d]] for "1", [[a c d]] for everything else. "c" is considered as a #default case (#default = c).
• [[a {{#switch: {{{1}}} | 1 = b{{!}}c}} d]] -> [[a b|c d]] for "1", [[a  d]] for everything else.

--Matusm (talk) 17:49, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Haha yeah, trying to add a if or switch in the Link+Icon/Skill i notice how the "|" wasnt working like it does in other parts, i didnt know how to replace it. Fun thing is i noticed the {{!}} in a template two days ago and saw it was a simple "|" but i thought it would be like the "table/end" or an old template-part from the 2011~2012 tables. Never thought it would be to avoid that issue. Oh and yeah i forgot to add a "P.D" later that day, i updated Template:SkillInfo and used a {{{name}}} instead of a {{PAGENAME}} to avoid the conflict with Shadow Cloak; i noticed the skills pages and the template didnt have an update for years so i practiced a little with that and update the pages in the process~

In your first example the "c" would be like the "Frenzied Firestorm" in the Template:Link+Icon/Skill right? I tested it in the SkillInfo and with your explaination i finally understand how and why they work xd, i thought they were for simple "show"/sample in the template page plus, i was using the pagename wrong cuz i added three brackets instead of two.

I checked the page with the other two templates (SpriteInfo and Link+Icon/Skill) and they work perfectly with Shadow Cloak~ no more disambiguation :D Thx for that and also thx a lot for explaining the application of the cursed "|" in templates haha, next time i will put them in practice :D!--HikaruFER 21:45, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Well, yes, both the "c" in the #switch and "Frenzied Firestorm" in the parameter work as defaults and can be understood as similar things, but they are not the same, they just happen to work similarly. In #switch, it's a default value (it wouldn't be if there was "= something" after the "c") that is used if the given value doesn't match any case. In template parameters, a default value is used whenever the parameter is not used, i.e. whenever the wiki would just print the parameter as is ("{{{1}}}"). Default values may be used to do useful things, but I think the "Frenzied Firestorm" is there just for the visual example. --Matusm (talk) 00:23, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

So if theres a switch that "Frenzied Firestorm" would be a default entry and would show up in the pages the template its applied but as it is not "inside" a switch it just work as a display when someone enters the Template:Link+Icon/Skill right? --HikaruFER 02:56, 9 May 2020 (UTC)