Difference between revisions of "Talk:Bombing Guide"

Revision as of 11:54, 17 August 2013

Current Revisions

Myself and Zeddy are working on reworking the guide, some parts from scratch, to bring it more up-to-date since honestly the older revisions were extremely outdated, and other bits were put bluntly, needless obtuse. Not to mention the video section was more of an 'advertise certain channels' rather than an actual resource for aspiring bomber to find content.

So expect to see a lot more revisions over the next few weeks, any questions or suggestions should go below.

Older Records

Shard Bombs

I've been working on observations of all the shard bombs over here. I think that the mechanics behind all the shard bombs are similar enough (read: identical) that we can condense all of the shard bombs into a single category. The only differences between the bombs are damage and the two status bombs so they don't need individual sections.

Something like this would be sufficient:

-Eek5 16:57, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Yes, please. Seeing the bombs next to each other, with their damage types and statuses clearly marked, with no extraneous text, is really helpful. Jdavis 18:42, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Class Discussion

I've recently created a page called Class Discussion in order for 'classes' to better cooperate together. If you have opinions or gripes about the other classes, please drop by to give your opinion. --Apath Feel free to bump this down if it's not appropriate.

General

Sorry Fallout I'm not sure where to put this - feel free to get rid of my additions when you want. I basically went thru the entire guide and did some minor grammar fixes, it should be pretty much all grammatically correct (like a bau5) Colonimbus2 11:49, 13 January 2012

Epic job man, thanks for the help =p --Fallout 12:47, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Now to get contributors, as i started this =D

Contributing. Also remember to sign your talk page comments with four tildes. Steelfoot 03:38, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

To do: Complete bomb list/discussiony thingy. find some videos. diagrams? add more tactics. also, the categories at the bottom of the page need some changing from equipment and weapons =S i don't know how. Fallout 12:39, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

It's due to the use of the weapon infobox template which isn't what should be used. No worries, I'll fix it and have the TOC in there as well. (FYI: The signature button is at the top of this editing screen, you just press the squiggly one that is second to the last and it will pop in the signature stuff for you without you having to type in tildes.) --Equinox 15:57, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

haha, i get it now. And I'm unsure whether the alchemy paths thing should be right in the middle of the page. I think it should be more of a reference, and be down the bottom like it was previously? I'm not sure though. Otherwise an option might be to put the blast bomb, crystal etc into the spoiler tabs? Just makes it easier to read through. --Fallout 03:34, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

You could try putting the alchemy paths in show/hide templates. See Template:Showhide. But it really seems to me that information about bombs should go in the "bombs" section. --Equinox 13:49, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I put them into spoiler tabs, but kept them in the bomb section. I'll fiddle around with it. Thanks for the help Equinox. --Fallout 08:36, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Style

I have to say, this guide has so much information! Also, the readability is getting better and better. Very nice job! The swordsmen and gunners are looking quite jealously at us bombers right now *g*. IMHO, the next task is (besides filling in the few gaps) to improve the text to a more objective style. This has been done at many places already, some are missing. I will see what I can do, but since English is not my mother tongue, feel free to correct my corrections :-) --CeCeeS 13:03, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

English is not my best subject xD, perhaps we hunt someone down who wants to sift through the walls of text we have and fix them? little difficult. with the gunner/swordie guides.... I laugh in their general direction, guess they just aren't dedicated enough.--Fallout 10:14, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Screenshots/Pictures

I still think there needs to be more colour in some places....

The Deconstructor's blast appears to be a gremlin symbol. Pretty neat.

In particular, can anyone get a cool picture with Ash or Shiver? (My damages are messed up and don't always show >.<). The tactics section also needs a bit of life, perhaps a picture of blast network (in game or high scores wtvr) or is it possible to embed YouTube videos directly into the page? might make for an easier explanation when you can visualize while read.--Fallout 10:14, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Eh, i uploaded irontech des and heavy decon images....but they don't fit anywhere on the page =S also, the page is getting quite large, and takes a bit longer to load... xD anyways, can anyone work this: into the page at least?--Fallout 11:57, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

BAB Will Do More Damage Than Nitronome.

Introduction

I cleaned up the introduction part by moving the general tactics in a new subsection in the tactics section (formerly combinations). I think it looks much sleeker now. Opinions are welcome.--CeCeeS 13:50, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

hmm, I think it works, but now there needs to be more content so it looks full. Perhaps we could just add a brief idea of each of the 4 main bombing points (dot-point list? ... unsure). eh i'll look at guides from other games, and see what they have going. --Fallout 08:14, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

I guess your short summary works.--CeCeeS 10:03, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Bombs

Can anyone please explain to why this section exists? In my opinion, it could simply be deleted. Of course, if you want to add more information, it might become a sensible section. --CeCeeS 13:41, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

All the bomb information was a subheader under the main "Bombs" header. I have no idea why people keep undoing that. --Equinox 02:17, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

The page is still under construction, end its really only being edited when i feel like it. Basically the bomb section will be a list of all the final bomb options, with descriptions of each along with a basic strategy/why you shouldn't use it. --Fallout 08:10, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Just Because I'm to lazy and poor to upgrade my vaporizers, AoA, VV and VT are left as they are.... anyone wanna fill them in? --Fallout 13:15, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

I wrote something about the fire bombs. I neither have a poison nor a shock bomb, so someone else will have to describe these bomb lines.--CeCeeS 17:14, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

I like the pictures and the hazard signs. It lightens up and structures the wall of text quite nicely! However, how about changing "hazards" to "cons" and adding "pros"? Or maybe leave "hazards" as it is and add "benefits" or so? Are there small symbols for something like that?--CeCeeS 09:19, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

We should look into changing a few things in the Voltaic Tempest section. Something should be said about the AOE nature of the shock status. The current "rare situations" description is rather disparaging and unhelpful to players as the Voltaic Tempest out-damages the Ash of Agni in groups of tightly spaced mobs(Circle kiting in arenas/FSC/Teammate with a vortex). Moreover, the AOE nature of shock can reapply shock and this property is also compounded by having a tight group of mobs. --BananaFuton 23:25, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

As far as i know Ash still does more DPS than VT unless it was secretly changed (can't see how shock would as the pause of mobile movement should be balanced with lower damage) ... and is still better to use in tight-knit mobs. Using it in arena's run the risk of mobs getting stuck In your path due to the pauses and will put enemies in unwanted positions, whereas Ash's placement of the enemies can be predicted... Furthermore with Poison fixed, VV will actually prove more useful in arenas then other AoE bombs (reminds me i need to fix that when I'm not being lazy). FSC is basically the only place to use VT aside from LD which I guess I'll add in the PvP section further down the page. As for a teammate with a vortex, Ash is still preferred as if that teammate is using ele, the Fire ticks are increased by the shock status; allowing for even more DPS. So I think the description is correct, however I can see how the 'rare situations' could deter players from deciding on the path... Maybe something along the lines of 'it's still helpful, just other paths prove OP relative to VT'. And something about shock being reapplied and can spread, certainly could be added as I'm sure people (like me) wouldn't click the link to the shock page xD.--Fallout 11:02, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Armor

I worked a bit on this part, feel free to give your opinion about it in any way. --CeCeeS 13:32, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

In the Mad bomber set description, the med + med (damage bonuses) adds up to very high which is correct AFAIK, but med + med + low adds up to maximum and not ultra? Cenyth 02:29, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

No the page is incorrect. You have it right; Med+Med+Low is Ultra, Med+Med+med is Maximum!Eek5 05:34, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, I corrected the error.--CeCeeS 10:09, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

FAQ

Ok well, i got a list of stuff to answer which I'll put here. My attention span for this kinda thing is low, so I'll just be adding them over time. --Fallout 08:39, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

I'd like to insert a strategy here but I can't quite figure this editing out. It's where 2 Bombers can coordinate and use both Ashe & Shivermist bombs in the same area. The targets in the area will take More Damage as the fire ticks proc faster when the target burns/freeze/burns/freeze. Myrapod 06:09, 9 July 2011 (GMT)

It's quite easy to do actually. In your case, click on "edit" right of "Tactics", insert "=== Headline text ===" without the quotes and your section name in the middle at a suitable place and start writing :-)--CeCeeS 17:38, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

If the FAQ starts getting long, should it get some show/hide tabs e.g.

Question: I'm trying to sell a very high damage UV haze bomb. Why does no-one want it?

Answer: To put it simply; Haze bomb damage bonuses only apply to the initial explosion of the bomb, which is actually quite small (less than half of the radius). So as most Vaporiser users buy the bombs for the status effects, the buyers are more likely to seek UVs increasing Charge Time Reduction rather than damage (unless of course the buyer is going for a Mad Bomber set, but those players would only need a damage+ med UV). In the end, a player lucky enough to receive a very high damage UV through crafting, is better off keeping the UV to their own (slight) advantage.

Sounds good.--CeCeeS 01:37, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

What does AoE mean?

gear/bombs shopping list needed

I just started playing a few days ago and wonder if you could put up a "what to get next" list. So for example which bombs are best to upgrade to 3* and 4* first and why, when to buy the 3rd weapon slot etc. There's plenty of information in this wiki and the forums but from T2 to T3 is just such a time investment, i think it would be really useful to have a plan. :) (sorry for my newbish use of a wiki, never had to edit anything)

You are right, a progress or crafting order section would be useful. Maybe I will write something about it.--CeCeeS 21:47, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Okay, I wrote some general tips. I noticed I didn't answer some of your specific questions, though. This may very well depend on your playstyle and how you feel about it. Comments and improvements are welcome, of course.--CeCeeS 17:53, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

Bomb Categories & Rating/Recommendations

I added some bomb categories under the bomb name and tried to organize it into sections. There are some overlaps but I just used the bomb's primary function to sort them. I did not include crowd control for Big Angry Bomb and Irontech even though they are "push" bombs because they aren't very usable as push bombs and I feel this would only lead to confusion for people trying to figure out what bombs to get. The three crowd control bombs are really Shivermist (freeze), Graviton (pull) and Nitronome (push). Outside of that things are really questionable.

People have also been asking for recommendations in the thread. I feel we talk about bad bombs a bit too much and it might be helpful to separate them out or just add a recommendation to each bomb. A rating is a bit too discrete and open to a little too much discussion so I think we should just group bombs into three categories: Highly Recommended, Recommended, and Not Recommended. Maybe we can sort the bombs out individually and compare lists and go from there. Again, this is subjective so I'm not sure we'll be able to reach a consensus so I didn't edit and tag on recommendations until we can discuss further. Eek5 14:50, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

ratings poll (5 being favorite, 1 being absolutely terrible)

http://www.polljunkie.com/eA7HB5/Poll12326.aspx

Results will be here.

http://www.polljunkie.com/sA8LAS/View12326.aspx

just need more people to take the poll =S --Fallout 12:20, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

Alchemy Paths

Alchemy Paths are out of date, especially the Chemical bomb family and the vortex lines. Might be better to scrap the section and provide a link to the "list of alchemy paths" page #bombs.--SpiralMike 19:03, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

I just cleaned it all up, and added a section for the Vortex-related bombs. --Vermilionshadow Friday, August 19, 2011 at 1:16 PM

Charge Times

The bomb charge times have numbers such as 3180. Are these times in milliseconds? The page doesn't say. Vroom 16:16, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

It does say (not visibly though xD) it is in milliseconds, just something went wrong when the table formatting was changed. But yeah, it's in ms --Fallout 04:29, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Is Dark Retribution of the fast-charging variety or slow-charging variety? Jdavis 17:29, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Fuse Times

Just a pontential thought, but including information on the fuse times on bombs could be useful. The guide frequently alludes to x bomb having a shorter fuse than y yet at no point during the guide do we have any stats reflecting this.

What the?

Why are you saying BAB and Irontech are bad? They are actually very useful. Sure the decreased walk speed is a drag, but the long fuse gives time for teammates to lead enemies into the bomb, then escape the knockback it does.

--Gianor 16:15, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Well, the guide does specifically say they they are "not recommended" at one point, as well as saying "actually viable with one factor of their uselessness knocked out" at another point. (Apologize for misquotes - from memory) Perhaps a slight edit toward making some parts sound more impartial, or accenting on the fact that this guide is based on opinion? --Apath

Shields

In the Arsenal forum, we get asked all the time about shields (and sidearm guns and swords) for bombers. The most recent example is here. This Bombing Guide briefly mentions Owlite Shield for a "rookie" bomber. Please add more shield and sidearm advice. Jdavis 02:48, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
+==Current Revisions==
+Myself and Zeddy are working on reworking the guide, some parts from scratch, to bring it more up-to-date since honestly the older revisions were extremely outdated, and other bits were put bluntly, needless obtuse. Not to mention the video section was more of an 'advertise certain channels' rather than an actual resource for aspiring bomber to find content.
+So expect to see a lot more revisions over the next few weeks, any questions or suggestions should go below.
+{{showhide|[[File:Achievement-World of Moorcraft.png|20px]] Older Records|content =
 ==Shard Bombs==
 I've been working on observations of all the shard bombs over [[User:Eek5/Shard_Bombs|here]].  I think that the mechanics behind all the shard bombs are similar enough (read: identical) that we can condense all of the shard bombs into a single category.  The only differences between the bombs are damage and the two status bombs so they don't need individual sections.
@@ Line 48: / Line 54: @@
 ===Screenshots/Pictures===
 I still think there needs to be more colour in some places....
+'''[[File:Heavy-Deconstructor.png|thumb|330px|The Deconstructor's blast appears to be a gremlin symbol. Pretty neat.|right]]'''
 In particular, can anyone get a cool picture with Ash or Shiver? (My damages are messed up and don't always show >.<). The tactics section also needs a bit of life, perhaps a picture of blast network (in game or high scores wtvr) or is it possible to embed YouTube videos directly into the page? might make for an easier explanation when you can visualize while read.--[[User:Fallout|Fallout]] 10:14, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
-:Eh, i uploaded irontech des and heavy decon images....but they don't fit anywhere on the page =S also, the page is getting quite large, and takes a bit longer to load... xD anyways, can anyone work this: '''[ [File:Heavy-Deconstructor.png|thumb|330px|The Deconstructor's blast appears to be a gremlin symbol. Pretty neat. |right] ]''' into the page at least?--[[User:Fallout|Fallout]] 11:57, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
+:Eh, i uploaded irontech des and heavy decon images....but they don't fit anywhere on the page =S also, the page is getting quite large, and takes a bit longer to load... xD anyways, can anyone work this: into the page at least?--[[User:Fallout|Fallout]] 11:57, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
 BAB Will Do More Damage Than Nitronome.
@@ Line 149: / Line 157: @@
 In the Arsenal forum, we get asked all the time about shields (and sidearm guns and swords) for bombers. The most recent example is [http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/71542 here]. This Bombing Guide briefly mentions Owlite Shield for a "rookie" bomber. Please add more shield and sidearm advice. [[User:Jdavis|Jdavis]] 02:48, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
+}}