Difference between revisions of "User talk:Clotho"

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::::I feel as if the confusion of this issue is simply the order of publication. Previously, there was no file naming system for in-game prestige icon rank and color variation, nor were many of them present. So Hikaru and I made one and published it on the [[prestige]] page. They should be treated the same as any other mainspace file even though they were uploaded after the sub-par originals and were not part of a mainspace name change of an established file. Following the logic of this discussion, the sub-par-userspace-now-duplicate-prestige-icon-files should be taken care of. But we will wait until we iron out [[Sandbox/Userspace Protocol]], as per the resolved "Duplicate Icon Issue" discussion. --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 03:10, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
 
::::I feel as if the confusion of this issue is simply the order of publication. Previously, there was no file naming system for in-game prestige icon rank and color variation, nor were many of them present. So Hikaru and I made one and published it on the [[prestige]] page. They should be treated the same as any other mainspace file even though they were uploaded after the sub-par originals and were not part of a mainspace name change of an established file. Following the logic of this discussion, the sub-par-userspace-now-duplicate-prestige-icon-files should be taken care of. But we will wait until we iron out [[Sandbox/Userspace Protocol]], as per the resolved "Duplicate Icon Issue" discussion. --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 03:10, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
 
::::: Sounds reasonable to me.  --[[User:Clotho|Clotho]] 17:01, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
 
::::: Sounds reasonable to me.  --[[User:Clotho|Clotho]] 17:01, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
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{{showhide|Resolved: Wiki namespaces|content=
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== Wiki namespaces ==
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We are thinking about revamping the [[Spiralknights:Style guide]] to be super duper, and so that anyone who wants to take up the volunteer work in the future when we're gone can easily educate themselves. At the moment the guide suffices, but Hikaru and I want to make it better because it is a little overwhelming to look at the way it is. And somewhat disorganized.
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Before we do, I'd like to know that the technical difference is between these namespaces. I ask because we'd be splitting the style guide into pages within the space, but some things seem to be a bit hazy:
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*[http://wiki.spiralknights.com/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages&from=A&to=a&namespace=4 Spiralknights]
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*[http://wiki.spiralknights.com/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages&from=A&to=a&namespace=12 Help]
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Do we make the new pages within the Spiralknights space, because the style guide is organized as such? But looking at other pages in these namespaces, it's pretty confusing.
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I would think "Help" would be anything to do with editing/things that are within the power of the users, and the style guide page should be redirected to the helpspace. Spiralknights space should concern issues that can only be cleared up by staff/support. That's my opinion, based on what Wikipedia does with their helpspace. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Whitespace For example].
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What should be done about this? Is there something technical somewhere that explains this for our wiki that I'm missing?
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Thanks,
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--[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 21:21, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
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:Not to be impolite/impatient: we'd like to know about this soon, so that we may publish our work with [[Sandbox/Userspace Protocol]] (discussed [http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/112452 here in the forums]). My gut wants to put it in the Help space, not SpiralKnights. I'd like to fix the other issues too, so that I can make editing easier for others by making a kickbutt style guide, especially when I can no longer edit as much as I have been (I've already procrastinated with life much more than I should, old habits die hard). --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 19:58, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
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::Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, I have been working on other projects. I'm not sure what exactly needs to be done here - the Spiralknights namespace is for management-type pages and the Help namespace is precisely that: help documentation for potential editors. Why exactly do we want to change this? --[[User:Clotho|Clotho]] 16:52, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
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:::We needed clarification, we don't want to change the system's rules at all - we should just fix a few pages that seem to be in the wrong space because they seem to break these "rules". The style guide is in the Spiralknights namespace, for example, when it should be in help, right? Redirects and image tags should also be in Help, correct me if I'm wrong. --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 17:37, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
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:::: Yes, you are right. Those pages are indeed in the wrong namespace! --[[User:Clotho|Clotho]] 20:54, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
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We want to do things in ways that make sense, but we can't without knowing exactly what each namespace is for (now that you've clarified this, we think we know). New users are overwhelmed by the style guide, so we want to essentially make it into a list of <nowiki>{{main|Help:PAGENAME}}</nowiki> links, organized by general edit goals such as "visuals," "organizagion," "navigation," and so on.
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:: This sounds like a great idea and will help new editors navigate these waters more easily. --[[User:Clotho|Clotho]] 20:54, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
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To start, we want to publish our userspace editing protocol. I want to make:
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"Help:Userspace editing protocol," containing the content of [[Sandbox/Userspace Protocol]]. Instead of <strike>Spiralknights:Userspace editing protocol</strike> containing that content. But until your response, the basic function of these namespaces was confusing. So now I/we're just waiting on an "oh sure, fix these things and go ahead" or "no wait, we need to look into this more." --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 18:08, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
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:: Please do go ahead, these tweaks will be most helpful! --[[User:Clotho|Clotho]] 20:54, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
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:::Before I dive in, will the move/redirect cause any issues with the Style guide? Especially external, non wiki links? I'm not super familiar with breaching namespace issues. It's a pretty major page after all, and linked to in the navigation panel. I'd like to think redirects take care of such things as long as they're not deleted. (My concern is with broken navigation) --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 21:34, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
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::::I don't think so. We can give it a try and if it breaks stuff we can always revert the changes. --[[User:Clotho|Clotho]] 00:04, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
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:::::Right! We/I'll get to that pretty soon (within the week, likely). Waiting on a few things from other editors in the forums, and of course, real life is busy during the holidays. --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 00:16, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
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::::::No rush! This could be a nice project to start the new year :)  Enjoy the holidays! --[[User:Clotho|Clotho]] 16:25, 13 December 2015 (UTC)
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:::::::You too :). I'll move this to resolved. --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 16:43, 13 December 2015 (UTC)
 
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We are also trying to avoid uploading duplicate files that are large, especially for [[news]] images. Users appreciate easy access to the "big" art, editors like to punch in numbers because each thing is its own entity with its own name despite having the same visual, and duplicate files are bad (accessory icons are particularly annoying to me). I'd like to make a specific redirect for these: "R to circumvent file duplication" or something you think would be better. --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 23:37, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
 
We are also trying to avoid uploading duplicate files that are large, especially for [[news]] images. Users appreciate easy access to the "big" art, editors like to punch in numbers because each thing is its own entity with its own name despite having the same visual, and duplicate files are bad (accessory icons are particularly annoying to me). I'd like to make a specific redirect for these: "R to circumvent file duplication" or something you think would be better. --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 23:37, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
 
== Wiki namespaces ==
 
 
We are thinking about revamping the [[Spiralknights:Style guide]] to be super duper, and so that anyone who wants to take up the volunteer work in the future when we're gone can easily educate themselves. At the moment the guide suffices, but Hikaru and I want to make it better because it is a little overwhelming to look at the way it is. And somewhat disorganized.
 
 
Before we do, I'd like to know that the technical difference is between these namespaces. I ask because we'd be splitting the style guide into pages within the space, but some things seem to be a bit hazy:
 
 
*[http://wiki.spiralknights.com/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages&from=A&to=a&namespace=4 Spiralknights]
 
*[http://wiki.spiralknights.com/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages&from=A&to=a&namespace=12 Help]
 
 
Do we make the new pages within the Spiralknights space, because the style guide is organized as such? But looking at other pages in these namespaces, it's pretty confusing.
 
 
I would think "Help" would be anything to do with editing/things that are within the power of the users, and the style guide page should be redirected to the helpspace. Spiralknights space should concern issues that can only be cleared up by staff/support. That's my opinion, based on what Wikipedia does with their helpspace. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Whitespace For example].
 
 
What should be done about this? Is there something technical somewhere that explains this for our wiki that I'm missing?
 
 
Thanks,
 
--[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 21:21, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
 
 
:Not to be impolite/impatient: we'd like to know about this soon, so that we may publish our work with [[Sandbox/Userspace Protocol]] (discussed [http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/112452 here in the forums]). My gut wants to put it in the Help space, not SpiralKnights. I'd like to fix the other issues too, so that I can make editing easier for others by making a kickbutt style guide, especially when I can no longer edit as much as I have been (I've already procrastinated with life much more than I should, old habits die hard). --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 19:58, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
 
::Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, I have been working on other projects. I'm not sure what exactly needs to be done here - the Spiralknights namespace is for management-type pages and the Help namespace is precisely that: help documentation for potential editors. Why exactly do we want to change this? --[[User:Clotho|Clotho]] 16:52, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
 
:::We needed clarification, we don't want to change the system's rules at all - we should just fix a few pages that seem to be in the wrong space because they seem to break these "rules". The style guide is in the Spiralknights namespace, for example, when it should be in help, right? Redirects and image tags should also be in Help, correct me if I'm wrong. --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 17:37, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
 
:::: Yes, you are right. Those pages are indeed in the wrong namespace! --[[User:Clotho|Clotho]] 20:54, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
 
 
We want to do things in ways that make sense, but we can't without knowing exactly what each namespace is for (now that you've clarified this, we think we know). New users are overwhelmed by the style guide, so we want to essentially make it into a list of <nowiki>{{main|Help:PAGENAME}}</nowiki> links, organized by general edit goals such as "visuals," "organizagion," "navigation," and so on.
 
:: This sounds like a great idea and will help new editors navigate these waters more easily. --[[User:Clotho|Clotho]] 20:54, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
 
 
To start, we want to publish our userspace editing protocol. I want to make:
 
[[Help:Userspace editing protocol]], containing the content of [[Sandbox/Userspace Protocol]]. Instead of [[Spiralknights:Userspace editing protocol]] containing that content. But until your response, the basic function of these namespaces was confusing. So now I/we're just waiting on an "oh sure, fix these things and go ahead" or "no wait, we need to look into this more." --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 18:08, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
 
:: Please do go ahead, these tweaks will be most helpful! --[[User:Clotho|Clotho]] 20:54, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
 
:::Before I dive in, will the move/redirect cause any issues with the Style guide? Especially external, non wiki links? I'm not super familiar with breaching namespace issues. It's a pretty major page after all, and linked to in the navigation panel. I'd like to think redirects take care of such things as long as they're not deleted. (My concern is with broken navigation) --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 21:34, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
 
::::I don't think so. We can give it a try and if it breaks stuff we can always revert the changes. --[[User:Clotho|Clotho]] 00:04, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
 
:::::Right! We/I'll get to that pretty soon (within the week, likely). Waiting on a few things from other editors in the forums, and of course, real life is busy during the holidays. --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 00:16, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
 
::::::No rush! This could be a nice project to start the new year :)  Enjoy the holidays! --[[User:Clotho|Clotho]] 16:25, 13 December 2015 (UTC)
 

Revision as of 16:43, 13 December 2015

Archived discussions can be found here. If you have a suggestion for Spiral Knights, please use the Suggestions Forum instead. If you need assistance with your account, use the links on the Support Portal to get help.

Operation Crimson Hammer

Okay! As you can see, several of us are working on getting anything mission related up to date, and Operation Crimson Hammer (OCH) is a mission - expansion subtype. Editors really need to be able to edit this page, because it is a large part of the game and connected to several things. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I can tell, the only reason it's locked to general editors is because it has Billing information. My solution to this problem:

Create the subpage: Operation Crimson Hammer/Billing and protect that.

Have {{main|Operation Crimson Hammer/Billing}} in an acquisition section somewhere on the OCH page, and let the main OCH page be edited by us (unprotect it).

Unless it was protected for some other reason? Could we have a similar solution(s) for that if so?

Thanks,

--Novaster 11:25, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

That page is linked to our billing documentation therefore it needs to be protected in full, not just part of it. An alternative would be to make the changes in a sandbox, once ready, let me know and I'll update the changes in the page itself. --Clotho 17:00, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
That's going to be a bit difficult. Editors really need to be able to freely edit a page that's such a large interactive and dynamic part of the game. That makes a lot of hassle to unprotect/protect a page on staff end over time. It's not possible to create Operation Crimson Hammer/Billing, protect that, and then adjust billing documentation to link to that page instead? If not, I'll have to work something out on our end, but it likely won't be as pretty. --Novaster 17:34, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

Quoted from email to support (regarding my inability to log in for a day or so, but another employee resolved the ticket so you might not have seen this): OCH issue: make a billing page about OCH, named "Operation Crimson Hammer/Billing" and protect it. This page would be a page in its own right and be able to be fully protected. Attempt to make billing documentation link to this "Operation Crimson Hammer/Billing" page instead of the "Operation Crimson Hammer" page. Unprotect the "Operation Crimson Hammer" page indefinitely and make sure it always links to the "Operation Crimson Hammer/Billing" page. This is because OCH is a major part of the game and editors need to be able to edit it freely. This method of billing protection as a subpage with a main expansion mission page should work for future expansion releases. Just imagine having to protect/unprotect OCH and any future expansions every time the game changes and editors need to update aspects of this/those page(s) - awful, right? Other editors seem to agree with me, and they should write a response on your (Clothos') talk page soon. Additional requests/details in the #subsection ("Operation Crimson Hammer") on your (Clotho's) talk page.

--Novaster 21:45, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

I'll discuss this with the billing department, but I don't foresee any changes in the near future. Sorry! --Clotho 20:42, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
Actually, what might work for the time being is a Sandbox/Operation Crimson Hammer where you guys make all the editions you want and I'll just copy/paste the contents into the protected page. --Clotho 20:46, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
I view this as a bandaid solution for reasons stated above (quite a hassle to do it this way if we continue to get more expansion missions). I/We'll work on that...soonish, most likely, but real life is very pressing for me these days. Let's hope billing can be flexible! --Novaster 20:53, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
We have another idea that might work better. I'll post here as soon as it's fleshed out. --Clotho 20:04, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
Sounds exciting. --Novaster 20:13, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

New Redirect Tags

There are a few words-pages such as "Electric" that we've redirected for convenience to "go" to color categories (users can always "search" for specifics instead of "go"). We'd like to make a redirect tag for these pages, but none of our current ones really fit - "R from alternate name" and "R from related word" come close but not quite. Would it be appropriate to make the equivalent of this for our wiki, and to add it to SpiralKnights:Redirect? Or is there something better? It's a somewhat sensitive issue because these breach namespaces (main and category). --Novaster 01:21, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

There is some desire to just adjust the rules for Category:Redirects from shortcut, which we already have, which is what brought this up. --Novaster 05:55, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
I don't see an issue with adding that new tag. Has anyone mentioned a con to this proposal? --Clotho 16:58, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
Hikaru would have to make changes regarding some work they did using the "shortcut" tag in the spanish wiki. If it is unacceptable to adjust the "shortcut" tag's function to include all "misc shortcuts" (which I think is the best option because I am not particularly fond of nitty gritty nitpicky exclusive mostly useless functions, no matter how "technically correct" they are, but that's just me), then we will make the new tag - since you don't see an issue - and adjust. --Novaster 17:14, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

We are also trying to avoid uploading duplicate files that are large, especially for news images. Users appreciate easy access to the "big" art, editors like to punch in numbers because each thing is its own entity with its own name despite having the same visual, and duplicate files are bad (accessory icons are particularly annoying to me). I'd like to make a specific redirect for these: "R to circumvent file duplication" or something you think would be better. --Novaster 23:37, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

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