Difference between revisions of "User talk:HikaruFer"

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Userspace Edits

I think I've worked out a solution for our recent upsets. Looking over this and providing some perspective on Clotho's talk page would help push the policy into review stage, to be rejected/modified/accepted. --Novaster 20:27, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

It is a good idea actually. I just leave my opinion :). Hope this could be made so users understand that, even if we know its a mistake, they dont get mad for the change. For later, more than a tutorial, we can add an "SpiralKnight:" page for the user page (with the policy is approved). To be honest, being new here, couldnt find the page where it help you do a user page, it took me a while to find it, maybe because "tutorial" wouldnt be a good name for me, but something like a "SpiralKnight:" page WITH the tutorial inside, we can add the categories that have the icons usefull for the pages. Hope this advance :) --Hikaru 20:51, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

P.D: not related but all those mistake in the disguise box was me haha. Sorry i tried my best within the new box of items, it was way easy with the autumn prize box x//D --Hikaru 20:52, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks :). Don't worry about it...I think we all know prize boxes are all kinds of silly. Even the forum admins :P --Novaster 20:56, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

Well, Clotho says it's up to us. So now booty scooty feedback over to here. --Novaster 02:24, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Woopie. I think a revision of the style guide would be fun, but it would need its own forum node, and I can start that after making a decent base for people to work from. So much wikipedia MoS source linking to do. Subpages would definitely help with the organization. I might have to make this a priority over other projects, because I will likely be far too busy with icky real life to help the wiki as much as people are used to. Which is an unhealthy amount. --Novaster 23:16, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Yay~ Dunno if subpages would be SpiralKnights:Style guide/subpagename or SpiralKnights:subpagename, i like the first better, but dunno how will work. And yeah, i saw your To Do List and thaaaaats alot ._.!!! Dont push yourself too much tho, i will see how much help i can do there :) --Hikaru 00:08, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

NPC Template

It's better to be consistent. Either add the bullet to location too, and remove the duplicates from each individual page, or remove the bullet from the template and add it to each individual page for roles. It is a lot better to have flexibility, so I'd go with the "no bullets in the template" option. --Novaster 23:25, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

I'm/we're going to have to go in and fix all the pages either way, so before you do more, really decide what to do. --Novaster 23:44, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

Well, usually NPCS have only one role so it is better if in the role parameter we can add the bullet to the template, because there will be not mistake, its always (havent seen a NPC who have two roles) one role so it will avoid users to mistakenly put a bullet in one page, and not in the other. But in locations is different, usualy a NPC have more than one location, so the bullet needs to be added with the [[Text]] so i though it wouldnt be necesary to add the bullet in location, only in role (all knights have the role without bullet, almost all gremlins too, havent re-checked the rest of them). Oh and im adding a tag of update (to boss template) for those who have NPC's template --Hikaru 23:49, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

I wouldn't bother with the tag...the pages are functioning (this reformat is not vital) and the tag makes it look pretty messy. And I probably won't get to it for a long time. Regarding consistencies, you can't make exceptions with that mindset, otherwise templates would be a mess all over the place. Pick one or the other, and I'll fix the pages. Options are bullets in the template, or no bullets in the template. I would go with no bullets in the template. Mistakes are less likely to be made with copypasting as long as the sources are consistent. --Novaster 23:55, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

Well, in that case, no bullets in the template would be. Im actually doing that right now with the NPCs. So gonna fix all those * before forgetting --Hikaru 23:58, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

Alright, as long as it's fun. I try very hard to clean up my own messes, even if it's an extrapolation via another editor's good faith work. Since the template is my design, it's my mess. To avoid edit conflicts I'll let you have at it. I'll put in more linking examples for the Template:Fileinfo. --Novaster 00:06, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

If you want you can but more examples. But it was mostly for the "main item" because the previous template have it and the new didnt. So want to be sure xD. Oh and dont worry about the "mess" i can understand about that so no biggy :) i just want to do things ^^ --Hikaru 00:21, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Hmm, what about (not related to bullet issue):

• Merchant

Or

• Merchant: Elemental Defender

Or

• Merchant
• Elemental Defender

Or

• Elemental Defender (confusing I think)

Or

• Merchant (Elemental Defender)

For NPCs such as Archilus? The point of this section of the infobox is to state a generalized role, and "elemental defender" doesn't really reveal anything to nubbies, even though it is what he is labelled as in-game. --Novaster 00:10, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Will go with the second option

• Merchant: Elemental Defender
  

But, wouldnt it be Vendor? or do i keep Merchant? --Hikaru 00:21, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Shoot yes, vendor. Argh :P --Novaster 00:28, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Hahaha though somewhere, sometime, read "do no use Merchant, use vendor instead" so i was confused hhaha. So

• Vendor: Elemental Defender

Would be :3 --Hikaru 00:30, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. And yeah, I think I wrote that, BECAUSE it's so easy to derp like this. Vendor is more appropriate than merchant for an umbrella term, considering both the in-game conventions as well as the real-world definitions. --Novaster 00:32, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Hahaha i think i keep it in mind because when i did a test traslating "Vendors who sell this item" to the ES wiki it give me problems because Sell is Vender and Vendors is Vendedores, the two words sounds the same and sound pretty dumb and redundant in spanish "Vendedores que venden este articulo" hahaha xD so i was like... okay what else i can do *leaves slowly* Im still giving it time till the adquisiton proyect is done so i can think what word i can used to replace "Vendors" or "sell" the one that fits and traslate better xD. Thats is a fun fact now that i think lol. Well going to start copy/editing :3! --Hikaru 00:43, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

NPC Page Divisions

Don't add repeated sections. The changes made to the various NPC pages divide the page up into repeated, tiny sections (description and appearance are too similar, and NPCs don't have official in-game descriptions anyway like items and certain locations do). We're going to have to revert those changes. --Novaster 05:02, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Yikes. How many pages was this done to? I can try to start at the beginning of the alphabet and work forward while you go backwards. --Novaster 05:04, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

But isn't important to said what is the purpose of that NPC? We can change the "description" but we need to said what that NPCs does and/or what its its purpose, and the Notes said "Release/patch notes/game build history, interesting things, etc" not "all info about the npc" right? --Hikaru 05:06, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Yes, it's important to have the information. As far as I can tell, this information was already in the notes section for most of these pages. It's not enough information to have its own section, and NPCs don't have official descriptions, so having a description section is both redundant, cluttered looking, and confusing. --Novaster 05:08, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Though there is some archaic leftovers from the previous bad format. That's why we're updating the pages - they're inconsistent or nonexistent. --Novaster 05:10, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Well but it seem good with NPCs page with low-info but with alot-info they look clutter (dunno if thats the word, chubby, big, a bus full of people xD). Wikias have a resumen (mostly, what the thing/person/mosnter/ is-do) and then the sub sections, and is a tiny info because the detailed one goes in others sections right? --Hikaru 05:12, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Not sure what you mean. Larger sections are superior to smaller sections as long as the information flows and the subject is either relatable, or there's a bunch of small things that don't belong in their own sections (such as a single point of history, if we have a lot of history, then we add a history section). Imagine reading a book with a bunch of unnecessary chapter breaks. You really only want a new section when there's a content change. The point is to divide for the sake of navigation (you can link directly to sections with URLs), and we don't want to do that here because the stuff is too similar and/or too small. --Novaster 05:19, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Uhmm, well in that case must be eliminated in ALL rigth? --Hikaru 05:20, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

I'm working on carefully fixing Archilus' page. --Novaster 05:27, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Argh, I said I'd start at the beginning of the alphabet :P --Novaster 05:29, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

If you think the page could look better, talk about it here. Argh. The use of "you" in an article is so bad lol. More leftovers from the archaic times. --Novaster 05:31, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Another minor format issue that is a major personal peeve of mine: overlinking. Terms shouldn't be linked more than once in an article, in general, when you're reading in paragraph format. Exceptions of course include template repeats. More information here. I have "remove repeated linking" in more than several edit comments :P --Novaster 05:34, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Well i can undo manually the description implementation and leave it with the info in notes as they (mostly) were. Im doing that right now, and also eliminating the overlinking, but the wording (what u did with archilus) must be other time because going to eat and sleep soon xD --Hikaru 05:36, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

I did Armero so i removed the link in the Dialogue tab (because isnt template). Do that with the others? --Hikaru 05:39, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

It's a lot of work keeping the wiki clean, and very painful when you generate more work for yourself. I wish someone would have stopped and helped me when I made this in the past - it was very bad, just check the version history. But all ppl did was say "that's nice" when glancing at it and I never saw the complaint in the discussion tab until years later, and after I'd learned quite a lot.

Definitely leave the link in the dialogue section tabs. That's part of the template system and it's in its own section - so it's format and convenience. Repeated linking is, as emphasized in the wiki article, mostly an issue when reading/writing in paragraph format. --Novaster 05:41, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Here's some more information about sections and section content. Because we are a gaming wiki, we don't perfectly follow all of wikipedia's conventions (especially with names). We rarely encounter an article that has a section that's too big. Our problem is sections that are too small, because the game has such limited, distinct information. What was the NPC's childhood like? Did they hatch from an egg? All kinds of missing things. --Novaster 05:49, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Well that happens xD see me that i just have less than three months. The fact that the OOO-SK team doesnt make a format and practically gives the wiki to whoever wants to edit (if noone would like to edit this wiki would be empty or out-ofdate ALOT) so i dont take it "take serious" (that everything must be perfect) i like consistence but well, mistakes happen xD. I was mostly guiding by the Style Guide's format so, ni the next cases we should be really sure what looks good, where the [[]] would appear (like, we add the bracet to the gallery caption but later we see its overlinking) and just test it in 3~5 pages, at the end of the week we probably would come out with a consistent format and we can start implemented it. It is mostly because if we took too much testing because we dunno would fit better then we will never end xD. Maybe we can ask in the Forum if we're not sure but nor all people comment, so its a slow to the process. But well, this can all be fixed :) --Hikaru 05:59, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

I've been thinking about an intro section, because it does LOOK better than notes underneath appearance, but notes should absolutely never be at the top of a page. I have gone to the forums regarding NPCs, but pretty much nobody except me, you, and Ciardha really (currently) care about putting the work into the pages of these guys. It should always be fun, yes, and I am sorry if I sound serious - I try not to sound mean serious, but I often come across as stiff. But yeah...node 107407 - some outdated discussion mostly about dialogue. I wouldn't reply to the thread, it wouldn't be helpful, but it should show how many individuals just LOVE EDITING NPC PAGES. --Novaster 06:08, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Okay, I poked around wikipedia looking at articles about people, and noticed that a lot of them have obese intro sections. So against my instinct I tried it out on the Barrus and Archilus pages. What do you think? Remember to shrink your window and pretend you have a tiny monitor when looking at these things. --Novaster 06:14, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

I didn't think I would like it this way, but I kinda do. It mimics the behavior of a description and lets the "appearance" section flow into the "gallery" section. I'm thinking we should sleep on this before putting any more work into it though. --Novaster 06:16, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

For the HoH vendors appearance, I'm thinking instead of the 5*, we say something like "Owlite Shield line" etc. and below the template say "Depends on rank." I'll put another test edit in. But definitely should sleep on it. --Novaster 06:33, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

I do like it. I think thats what my eyes need xD! Well, after fixing the description's tab i would sleep :) but first, see this Photoshop Time i did (800x600) --Hikaru 06:36, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

And the HoH Vendors idea is great :D it put all the items without being wrong.

Then again that might be too repetitive. But leaving it at the 5* is inherently wrong, just as describing Bulky during only the Dark Harvest would be wrong. Argh. Definitely going to sleep on it. And yeah, I always shrink my window when testing new format, there are plenty of phone users out there. We shouldn't cater to that because we are a wiki with a huge amount of information but we should make sure pages are squishy.

Admittedly I am disappointed that Zebulon's chromalisk tank is always a little baby, and not scaled to tier. I kid. The fact they all change outfits is amazing. --Novaster 06:39, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Here I am staring at apostrophes at 1:45 in the morning regarding Archilus's vs. Archilus'. Goodnight. --Novaster 06:45, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Lol xD. Well, as a Spanish user, Archilus's is better. But in grammar, i cant give much feedback, not a pro and i cant spell words like "appearance" without thinking twice xD. Nite~ --Hikaru 06:50, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Yeah it doesn't matter either way, so let's use the one that is better for more languages. Even though it's the Eng wiki. I have done a few more modifications to Archilus's'ss''s's page, take a look. I've uploaded pictures of Archilus so we can really see what the page will look like when it's finished. IDK if you were really gunning to do those, so I only did them for Archilus just for page testing. --Novaster 18:22, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Its awesome~ And notes could be added "if any" like the dialogue and wares. Wegner is a good NPCpage to test, he have info + history (and i super mega support the format of history in wegner for all pages!). Biscotti and Kozma could be used for test too. I support this format :). --Hikaru 21:06, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

NPC Format: Newer

So, I know before we discussed heavily the NPC page format, but now that we've actually been working with pages, it's of course run into several hiccups. I've decided to move the gallery down to the bottom (many game/anime wikis have a gallery at the bottom, my favorite is pages such as this one on the Homestuck wiki, but they put their "notes" (trivia, which SK editors have decided to wipe out, replacing with notes) under the gallery, which looks bad for our wiki because we don't use Wikia's base chassis.

So I've adjusted Wegner and Archilus again...what do you think now? Wares are closer to the top...which for some NPCs, especially Basil, is more desired information anyway.

I might not be able to do much today. Big tummy ache. --Novaster 22:43, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, I am liking the gallery on the bottom much better. It's a consistent format with other wikis and equipment pages such as Obsidian Edge. The only pages that seem to break it are pages such as Bolted Vee and so on, but that's essentially a giant sortable gallery that potentially expands down forever, so having any information besides "see also" after such a thing would be very inconvenient. What I'm annoyed about now is the history section, some NPCs have a lot, most don't, but it should be in the same location on the page so people can find the information easily. But then we end up with ittybitty sections. Just argh. How I got around this before was the notes section. It's all very frustrating. --Novaster 22:55, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Well it now fit with other page's format like weapons page right? A short organization would be:

• (What is, what does, etc, descirption but without tab)
• Appearance (with template if its knight)
• Wares (if any)
• Dialogue (if any)
• Notes (if any, and if there is notes)
  • History (if any)
• Gallery
• See Also

Right? I add "notes" because it could be:

==Notes==
===History===
Text

If there is only history, wegner could be:

==Notes==
Allusions
===History===
Text

Well, i said it to keep all as the same, and keep History with thre === right? or we can add Notes, History, Gallery with all having ==

But we can discuss that later :) im taking care of the images so u can rest for your tummy ache ^^ take medicine to gel well~ --Hikaru 23:06, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

I have incorporated this into "test 2" edits of Wegner and Archilus pages. I am a stubborn type... if I suddenly stop editing, you'll know why. Napping off the tummy ache. If you think test 2 edits look good, I'll try them out on a few other NPC pages I think will be problematic. --Novaster 23:14, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Test 3 puts the dialogue above the gallery below notes. I think I'd be happy with this overall. --Novaster 23:26, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Test 3. Dialogue between notes and gallery looks good! Not all notes-info above (in "description") but neither no-info. Just a little thing, we should write "Town Square" not "Haven Town Square", same with others (Like Garrison and Bazaar) it only exist one of each, and, in the strange case somehow SK release a new town with another town square/garrison/bazaar, take in count that we can make redirects and still, need to create new pages like Town Square (Haven, and Town Square (NewCity) xD So i think we are safe to put Town Square, Garrison, Bazaar, Arcade, and so on, only, not "Haven Bazaar" or that. --Hikaru 00:51, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree. No need for Haven before these areas. We can always fix it later in the extremely unlikely event they make more elaborate towns outside of Haven. --Novaster 01:14, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

Okay then :3! Im not gonna add the format because we're still testing it but only fix those Haven Etc that were left behind because i fix some yesterday. Hope you feel better with your ache ^^! --Hikaru 01:22, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

NPC Format: almost there!?

Oh I remember why I started doing "Haven Town Square" etc. - it was because of the "Arcade" mission/exploration interface vs. the Haven Arcade location in Haven. Oh well. What do? --Novaster 11:10, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

After much napping upon this issue, I find myself most pleased with Archilus' page format. This would result in this format (I restored the linking in the brackets, as that's part of a template system and is convenient per section - overlinking is mostly an issue in paragraph format). If you agree with this layout, I will press forward with changes. --Novaster 10:41, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

I have made what I think is a better, less repetitive, more clear, less confusing, blahblah template for vendors. It needed to be done because their format is so...not in-sync with the rest of the wiki. It's still very beta, but I stuck it on Archilus' page for testing. What do you think so far? It might influence our format decisions. --Novaster 22:19, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

I have also put a demo on Talk:Brinks because he has an inventory with a lot of item type variety. My main goal is to ensure players understand that the vendor sells an ITEM, vs. a RECIPE for that item, and to make sure they don't miss that certain items can be bought with different things - Rock Salt for example, or Dark Harvest Prize Boxes for different candy tokens, and so on. If you like the format, feel free to make more entries, cross-referencing with in-game proofs and Miss-Nice's data to make sure it's up to date, because many pages are out of date. Or say you don't like it/there's problems.

And finally, how does this vendor list template influence our decision with the NPC page general format? (Should it be called WaresList instead?) I continue to prefer this version of Archilus the most. --Novaster 00:14, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Considering the nature of the vendorlist template, and the general format of the entire wiki (players will likely try to find items via the main lists or the item pages, not NPC pages), I'm thinking it would be best to put wares on the bottom, above "See Also." The logic is the same as other pages with lists - lists are large and potentially forever-downward expanding, having content besides "see also" after lists isn't prudent. It also makes sense, because many lists are essentially sortable galleries (something I mentioned previously), though vendor lists are not as gallery-like as others. As soon as we agree, I'll make the changes, since I'm the one making a fuss about it and it would ultimately be my mess.

Compare:

• this version of Archilus, which I currently like the most
• this version of Archilus, which I like a lot, but now, not as much as the one above

I think letting the gallery have more than 3 per row really makes a huge difference, we just have to be careful, because not everyone has a large monitor. It looks fine on my laptop, which has a rather small screen. It will be horrid for phone browsers, but since this is a gaming wiki with a lot of information, catering to phones isn't prudent. --Novaster 01:01, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Shortcuts

Those redirects/pages shouldn't be tagged with shortcuts. Shortcuts are reserved for Spiral Knights Wiki project reference pages (SpiralKnights: namespace) only. It's a very technical thing. --Novaster 00:59, 12 November 2015 (UTC) It seems pretty silly to me though. I'll see if we can't talk about it with staff, because it would be nice to be able to use it this way. --Novaster 01:08, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

I'll see if it would be okay to make the equivalent of this for our wiki. --Novaster 01:16, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Lol then this is no good haha. (Its the equivalent of shortcut tag in the ES wiki). But why dont we use the tag? i mean it is almost empty anyway. It only have two pages, and one of them is the manual. Even equinox used the shortcut tag to the "Template:D" right? we can just ask to "change the rules" and allow shortcut tag to be used anywhere (again, equinox used it anyway xD) but well, im going to sleep now :) i probably wouldnt log tomorrow so see you later~ P.D: hope ur tummy ache dissapeared :) --Hikaru 05:46, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

I agree, that's why it seems silly to me. Night! --Novaster 05:53, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Image

Just FYI, Hat Simulator is a guild. The image doesn't portray unreleased content, so it's essentially fan art, and as far as I know the Spiral Spy thing isn't an issue because of this. It's not going to be used in an official capacity regarding articles about the game. Pretend it's "Guildspace." --Novaster 21:25, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

Ohh it is? Though it was fanart but didnt know the spiral spy's "rules" allow it xD thx for that save --Hikaru 23:19, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

TBH I don't really know for sure (98% sure?) Thanks for finding my embarrassing early uploads and adding delete tags. I tried to find them all before but files are sneaky. The wiki feels overly biological with its "rules" sometimes. Oh yeah, follow this rule to a T, except for this, this, and this exception. Bleh. --Novaster 10:30, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

Ohhh those accesories shows? they looks nice tho! but too complicated to do (overworld are "easier" xD) haha :). And i didnt get the "folow this rule to a T" x-x! --Hikaru 02:29, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

NPC Data Gathering

Hey Hikaru, doing well? =) Listen, I'm gonna be busy with work from now on, so I want to get this NPC data gathering over with, but I'll need some help finishing this up. Any ideas or suggestions? -MissNice 21:58, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Since it turned out that way, go here: my talk page. -MissNice 17:43, 19 November 2015 (UTC)