User talk:MissNice

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Page for talks regarding Spiral Knights Wiki edits.



You and another user show interest in validating Basil's recipe inventory. You might want to collaborate and talk with Hikaru. I would suggest leaving a message on their talk page as well so you can get more data efficiently. ATM, we are working on overhauling acquisition, with the Basil recipe-lobby template being a separate endeavor. All the same, the data can be used for both projects. See see my talk page for small discussion. --Novaster 17:41, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Very well, I will keep in touch with Hikaru as well. For now, my plans are: using the same format as in Mission: In Cold Blood, gathering Basil's data at least once a day, checking for recipes repetition in short span of time. --MissNice 17:53, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Talk Page Format

Erm, you really should keep the talk page format the same as other talk pages on the wiki/general worldwide forums and posting areas. Ie, post, reply, reply, reply, not reply, post. Organizing it in showhides with various headers is fine, as it is a personal page after all. --Novaster 18:16, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Alright. :( MissNice 18:43, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
Could I try a format I think you might like that also works in a way that lets editors talk with you easily? --Novaster 18:51, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
Go ahead. Haha, this should be in completely separate topic. We might even end up making a talk template. xD But yeah, not the priority here. -- MissNice 18:55, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
I wouldn't use a template unless it was for the mainspace or to ensure consistent file naming for user images, which doesn't seem to happen a lot of the time anyway. Every once in a while I go through untagged images and you wouldn't believe the things I find. How's this format? If you get deep into editing and gain experience, you might want a top header like the one I modified on my talk page for non-staff use. Talk pages can get very cluttered so it's good you're organizing yours from the start. --Novaster 19:04, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for your effort. My main idea was to place new posts on the top the page and style name and time stamp differently from the text so it's organized and eye catching, but since I should not change that, I won't change anything, at least for now. Untagged images...yeah... I'm guilty of those too, since my point of reference were, well, dozens and dozens of other untagged images. >_< I wish I saw yours sooner. -- MissNice 19:28, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Basil Lobby

Btw, i already take care of Basil lobby's recipe except Crimson Hammer Expation :) i just need a little time to add in the templates ^^ --Hikaru 01:19, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

I see you did all of them. Good job! =) If there is something specific you want me to do, just ping me. I'll be checking ingame for the Basil recipes for now. --MissNice 09:05, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
Thx ^^! Well i will be busy today and maybe tomorrow and Basil arcada's recipe is the only thing left, for only and not-only. Both need to be ready so we can use the acquisition template to start with the main list of items. If u can, as i see u said in some comment, be the BFF of Basil hahaha stalking him :V! To check the recipes he sells in arcada, do it when u can and in no hurry because i know it would be tedious. I will text u after im back. Kepp up with the good work :3! Bye~ --Hikaru 20:17, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Im Back~ Have seem the Basil Data, it is nice :D, after all is done (arcada) we should start thinking in what add and what no (adding Pickups in Basil Page can work but had to see) i am going to work a little in acquisition template to fix some details and maybe later help with mission's format --Hikaru 22:33, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Basil Data

I noticed you have this on your page:

speedrunned (10-13min) Basil twice; number of players: 1, number for recipes: 13-14, completely different list, no limit to buying X number of copies of the same recipe. Needs more testing to be sure. - User Data

  • A completely different list (or lack of data) does not prove or disprove this point, hich has been true for years:
For example, if you buy a recipe from Basil on one arcade run, and manage to get to him again within a short time span (same gate or another gate, doesn't matter), he won't have the recipe you bought in stock for you (he will for other players who joined early enough) - Forums.
Emphasis on the last bit in parenthesis - this is how we know he doesn't have it. Obviously it would be very difficult to tell if he doesn't have a repeat if you're by yourself. I purposefully don't spam speedrun Basil because of it. The only specific item I remember is Dark Briar Barrage. I bought it, then started running again, a friend joined, and DBB was there for them when we got there, but not for me. The recipes were otherwise the same for both of us. And this has happened many times for different items, within the year - so I guess it could have been stealth patched? But that's why we're testing. Importantly, I do not recall if the recipes I didn't buy were there again, because I did not care about them - they weren't X, so I didn't look carefully. I'm sure you know the feeling of finding HoH recipes at Basil.
  • Now, I think the main point here is disproving this:
indicating a timed universal rotation of perhaps 15-20 minutes - Forums
So Basil could still randomly select either very rapidly or per run per host (of course, never changing while players are in the terminal with him, because they'd have to "refresh" by reloading the area and well, that's not something you can do in SK without reloading the floor and in doing so you lose direct access to the floor. This makes a timed mechanic seem unlikely). We'd need to send two different players on runs in two different gates, and have them load into depth 23 at the same time to check if Basil has universal inventory, and then repeat that rapidly in case he happens to have the same stuff for both players the first time. The statistical probability of him having the same inventory is astronomically low, assuming the inventory behaves this way, but it could still happen. I have a hunch that it is actually this mechanic, not a timed universal mechanic.
  • no limit to buying X number of copies of the same recipe - data
This is confirmed to be a bug, I've asked support directly about it due to an incident with Sacred Falcon Shade Armor. If this happened, it needs to be bug reported.

I am a nosy person. I'll be available for the separate-duo-run later today (unless you have enthusiastic friends you'd prefer doing it with), add me in-game. IGN is Novaster. --Novaster 17:38, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Alright, I'll add you ingame. It might be a bit tricky to meet up since we're in different timezones and are free at different times in the day, but hey, perhaps we can make it happen. Cheers! --MissNice 11:13, 7 September 2015 (UTC)]]


Ur information gathered of basil seems pretty awesome! I am happy u could help with Basil Arcada's Recipe. I think i didnt have the time to say thx before :). Take ur time and have a great night ^^ --Hikaru 04:57, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, I try to get to Basil as much as I can. Tier3 is going okay, Tier2 and Tier1 are not yet there, I'll try to visit them this week. You have a lovely day too! Cheers! --MissNice 10:42, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

NPCs Data

Hey Miss~ Was checking your updates lately (thx for ur hard work x3!) and, the white block with text, means all that data (of Kragen, Quillion and Ricasso's store) is completed? I wanted to know so i can make plans of start adding the data to the main code :) --Hikaru 19:01, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

Hello Hikaru! Nice to talk to you again. =)
If you would like to implement data gathered on my page into their own appropriate pages, please do so, but keep in mind that those which have written ">>> 100% UPDATED <<<" are actually completely done updating and are ready to be used. This, so far, includes Basil's Rank Mission Lobby Inventory, Basil's OHC Inventory and Brink's Inventory.
Other NPC's, and those white boxes you noticed, are still in gathering process and they are there for me to quickly see which of those few items that exist in the game still did not show up. For example, with Ricasso, I had Shadowtech_Alchemer_Mk_II written in that white box as an item that it was missing from his inventory and it finally showed up today in the game, so it's off the missing list now and in his inventory tab.
Some things puzzle me though... For most items i can safely say "Ok, since items are randomly showing up (like in Ricasso's inventory) this XYZ item is missing and still didn't pop up and will probably show up later in a few days. I just have to wait and check daily if it comes up." However, I am not sure if items like Blaster and Blast_Bomb will come up for Ricasso, since every player gets these items for free in Missions as rewards. So basically every player already has one, unless they sold it for whatever reason. But then again, these items are normally sold in HOH, so why not Ricasso too? Is it possbible that they just didn't pop up while I was there or maybe it's been removed for Ricasso? I mean, either way is possible. I have 30 days worth of data, but this pool is still too small for an assumption like that. Is this written somewhere that I am not aware of? It could just be the case of me being very blind and not noticing update reports, haha. xD Same thing with items that came with the gunner update. The "new" armor and helms are nicely showing up for Greave, but where are guns for Ricasso (Dark_Chaingun, Elemental_Blaster, Pierce_Blaster...)? Are they really Basil only recipes?
Because of these questions floating in my head, I would like to make sure and still watch over these NPC's for a little longer. I would like to be done with them by Christmas though.
Before you do Basil's items, please do something for me. Make sure that any kind of Capsule and any kind of Vial (like Health_Capsule and Fire_Vial and their Super and Ultra variants) be redirected to Pickup or Consumable or Health or whatever it is you would find appropriate for that item, since they do not have their own page and search comes up with nothing. That would be very nice. =)
Cheers! -MissNice 18:44, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
Ohh so i will better wait till you add the "100% update" then :) it is better so i dont confuse over "did i add that or not?" and do double work xD. Im having fun organizing images and do some other stuff so no hurry. For the Ricasso's inventory, i think the blaster would have been erase? i tried to look for it and didnt appear :/ but the Blaster's page said it is, so maybe it was an error or, as you said, will show up soon. About the new guns, seems (to me) that they arent going to appear, they look like a "Basil only recipe" to me and, in some place of my memory, i read a forum node where it said "you can find the new gun's recipes at basil!" or something like that, but not sure. Never mention Ricasso, taking in count that it would have been made (in ricasso) and i think you can only buy its recipe. But still not sure.
And sure~ would change the links to those items :) that or ask Novaster if we can make single redirects to add to Usable's cat. Either way i will fix them when i add it to Basil's page (as the Mission/Reward is only for recipes, i think o.o). Thx again for your hard work x3! Have a nice day~ --Hikaru 18:57, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
Make sure to not use the underscore ("_") when publishing outside of the userspace. --Novaster 19:14, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
Np! Going to erase them~ Btw what did you think in creating each redirect to usable's item? Good or nay? --Hikaru 19:21, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
Very good. They're entities. We should add Category:Pickups to the redirects keep track of them all. --Novaster 19:25, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
Was thinking in that :) going to it now~ --Hikaru 20:16, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

NPC Data Gathering:

Looking at your page data, it seems to be pretty darn finished. If that's the case, we can move on to the next phase of the acquisition template. Otherwise we'd just keep doing Basil runs till we find everything under the sun there is to find. --Novaster 22:02, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

At this stage of gathering where I am now, and considering my busy schedule over the next two months, help from people would be much appreciated for the following points:
  • Dead links have been found. 1) Super and Ultra variant of Vials and Health Capsules need to redirect to Pickup or whatever is appropriate, 2) every individual personal color that Vatel sells needs redirecting to Personal_Color. It would be nice if someone did this, since I have no knowledge of how to.
  • Basil's Prestige inventory changes according to...something I didn't figure out yet what. I thought it possibly changes together with characters rank. My alt char is now a Knight at the end of mission 5-2 and there is still no change to Super Vials, which by rank would begin from mission 5-1. On the other hand, his inventory could possibly change with player's prestige (I guess logically), but if so, what is the prestige cap when Super Vials and Health Capsules appear for sale and then again what is the cap for their Ultra variants? Can someone help with figuring this out?
  • NPC's in Bazaar have... odd selection of items it seems. So far, none of the items recieved as rewards trough Rank Missions are present. There are also other items that just haven't appeared yet. Maybe they never will. Check "Inventory Completion and Missing Items" box, which I placed for every Bazaar NPC. It would be nice to hear other people's opinion on this matter too.
  • Basil Arcade Inventory list. Yes it looks finished but it's not. I imagine not many recipes are missing thoguh, I could make another "Inventory Completion and Missing Items" box for Basil, to be able to clearly see what is missing.
Brinks is done and ready for implementation for a while now and his inventory is different from everyone elses since he has some items bound and some not bound. Basil Rank inventory is done too and so is Basil OCH Inventory. And I know Hikaru would rather wait to have all data for Basil and everyone gathered before placing it, but I think it's safer to implement smaller packages of data than waiting for days and having it all in one huge chunk. My recommendation is to deal with Brinks now and what is available for Basil. Placeholders in acquisition template for Basil's Arcade and Prestige Inventory would be a good idea, to clearly see where things will go once we have all of it ready.
Cheers! -MissNice 17:39, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

Redirects are fun to do, just put #REDIRECT before the target page...and add a # to target a section or anchor. Be sure to add relevant categories. For redirects, you don't need to make an edit comment (unless the redirect is controversial to the editor community), because the wiki automatically fills that data in. Example:

For example, for yellow personal color:

#REDIRECT [[Personal Color#Yellow Personal Color]]

[[Category:Usables|Personal Color]]

Just make sure to pay extra special attention to capitals and plurals, and to follow the in-game convention exactly (besides all caps of course...there was an MK II vs. Mk II fiasco years ago). For example, a page that is plural, but not the name of the item in-game (many items are plural in-game, such as "Vertical Vents", but other items are singular - such as Stranger Robes vs. Stranger Robe... a mistake I recently made) would have a different category tag, because it's not an actual item and shouldn't go in any categories. There is more information in Spiralknights:Redirect. We almost always need help with redirects when there's a new Prize Box out.

Importantly, leave out the underscore ("_") when editing, it's bad to have it because it's not what we do. I've only ever used underscores for certain templates that have file switches or complicated links to force the navigation to work. And that's because it's a lazy "trick." It's an archaic format - nowadays, it just looks bad. No links in published official wiki namespaces use them. If they do it should be fixed. There is some more information about linking within the wiki here.

I have to say, I am looking forward to putting the acquisition template in place. It's long overdue for many equipment pages. Your work has been fantastic, and will last quite some time I hope. Unless the game updates. If it does, regarding these inventories, let's hope they mention it in the patch notes and don't sneak it in *shudder.*

Do we have permission to edit your page (to add data) if we find more data? --Novaster 19:49, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

Hello~ I've been busy this days. I will check what i can help meanwhile im here with free time and check the recent changes because i see some stranger robe its looks cool but sadly i would not buy it xD prety cool tho. --Hikaru 00:40, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
Oh and i did update the Brinks page some weeks ago :) --Hikaru 00:43, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
Absolutely, Novaster and Hikaru, you have permission for editing my page to add new stuff you find, that would be great. Things are organized, so you should not have issues finding approptiate NPC.
Hikaru, thanks for Brinks update, nice work! =)
I can't wait for acquisition template too, I'm very excited. Cheers! -- MissNice 15:18, 21 November 2015 (UTC)
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