Difference between revisions of "User talk:HikaruFer/proyects1"

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==NPC Page Format v. 3.0==
 
==NPC Page Format v. 3.0==
 
[[Vaelyn|Boop]]. So NPCs that don't use equipment (knights or otherwise) would just use a paragraph format to describe them within the new [[:Template:Appearance]], similar to but not as involved as, say, [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Bulbasaur_%28Pok%C3%A9mon%29#Biology this description of Bulbasaur on Bulbapedia]. --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 20:30, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
 
[[Vaelyn|Boop]]. So NPCs that don't use equipment (knights or otherwise) would just use a paragraph format to describe them within the new [[:Template:Appearance]], similar to but not as involved as, say, [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Bulbasaur_%28Pok%C3%A9mon%29#Biology this description of Bulbasaur on Bulbapedia]. --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 20:30, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
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::::::::::Wew, tired. More tomorrow. --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 00:25, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
 
::::::::::Wew, tired. More tomorrow. --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 00:25, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
 
::::::::::I think adding the subtitle bit could potentially be confusing, since there's so many different kinds. To resolve the potentially never-ending adjustment of SK's updates/dynamic "status quo," I've removed several switches and allowed manual override of the intro phrase, this way, things are a little easier to work with, but editors will have to pay a little more attention to keep things consistent. --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 21:44, 10 October 2015 (UTC)
 
::::::::::I think adding the subtitle bit could potentially be confusing, since there's so many different kinds. To resolve the potentially never-ending adjustment of SK's updates/dynamic "status quo," I've removed several switches and allowed manual override of the intro phrase, this way, things are a little easier to work with, but editors will have to pay a little more attention to keep things consistent. --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 21:44, 10 October 2015 (UTC)
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==NPC Template==
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It's better to be consistent. Either add the bullet to location too, and remove the duplicates from each individual page, or remove the bullet from the template and add it to each individual page for roles. It is a lot better to have flexibility, so I'd go with the "no bullets in the template" option. --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 23:25, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
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:I'm/we're going to have to go in and fix all the pages either way, so before you do more, really decide what to do. --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 23:44, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
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::Well, usually NPCS have only one role so it is better if in the role parameter we can add the bullet to the template, because there will be not mistake, its always (havent seen a NPC who have two roles) one role so it will avoid users to mistakenly put a bullet in one page, and not in the other. But in locations is different, usualy a NPC have more than one location, so the bullet needs to be added with the <nowiki>[[Text]]</nowiki> so i though it wouldnt be necesary to add the bullet in location, only in role (all knights have the role without bullet, almost all gremlins too, havent re-checked the rest of them). Oh and im adding a tag of update (to boss template) for those who have NPC's template --[[User:HikaruFer|Hikaru]] 23:49, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
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:::I wouldn't bother with the tag...the pages are functioning (this reformat is not vital) and the tag makes it look pretty messy. And I probably won't get to it for a long time. Regarding consistencies, you can't make exceptions with that mindset, otherwise templates would be a mess all over the place. Pick one or the other, and I'll fix the pages. Options are bullets in the template, or no bullets in the template. I would go with no bullets in the template. Mistakes are less likely to be made with copypasting as long as the sources are consistent. --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 23:55, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
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::::Well, in that case, no bullets in the template would be. Im actually doing that right now with the NPCs. So gonna fix all those * before forgetting --[[User:HikaruFer|Hikaru]] 23:58, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
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:::::Alright, as long as it's fun. I try very hard to clean up my own messes, even if it's an extrapolation via another editor's good faith work. Since the template is my design, it's my mess. To avoid edit conflicts I'll let you have at it. I'll put in more linking examples for the [[:Template:Fileinfo]]. --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 00:06, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
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::::::If you want you can but more examples. But it was mostly for the "main item" because the previous template have it and the new didnt. So want to be sure xD. Oh and dont worry about the "mess" i can understand about that so no biggy :) i just want to do things ^^ --[[User:HikaruFer|Hikaru]] 00:21, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
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{{Showhide|Hmm, what about (not related to bullet issue):|content=
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*[[Merchant]]
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Or
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*[[Merchant]]: Elemental Defender
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Or
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*[[Merchant]]
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*Elemental Defender
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Or
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*[[Merchant|Elemental Defender]] (confusing I think)
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Or
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*[[Merchant]] (Elemental Defender)
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}}
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For NPCs such as Archilus? The point of this section of the infobox is to state a generalized role, and "elemental defender" doesn't really reveal anything to nubbies, even though it is what he is labelled as in-game. --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 00:10, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
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:Will go with the second option<br>
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:*[[Merchant]]: Elemental Defender<br>
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:But, wouldnt it be Vendor? or do i keep Merchant? --[[User:HikaruFer|Hikaru]] 00:21, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
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::Shoot yes, vendor. Argh :P --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 00:28, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
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:::Hahaha though somewhere, sometime, read "do no use Merchant, use vendor instead" so i was confused hhaha. So
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:::*[[Vendor]]: Elemental Defender
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:::Would be :3 --[[User:HikaruFer|Hikaru]] 00:30, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
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::::Sounds good to me. And yeah, I think I wrote that, BECAUSE it's so easy to derp like this. Vendor is more appropriate than merchant for an umbrella term, considering both the in-game conventions as well as the real-world definitions. --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 00:32, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
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:::::Hahaha i think i keep it in mind because when i did a test traslating "Vendors who sell this item" to the ES wiki it give me problems because Sell is Vender and Vendors is Vendedores, the two words sounds the same and sound pretty dumb and redundant in spanish "Vendedores que venden este articulo" hahaha xD so i was like... okay what else i can do *leaves slowly* Im still giving it time till the adquisiton proyect is done so i can think what word i can used to replace "Vendors" or "sell" the one that fits and traslate better xD. Thats is a fun fact now that i think lol. Well going to start copy/editing :3! --[[User:HikaruFer|Hikaru]] 00:43, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
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==NPC Page Divisions==
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Don't add repeated sections. The changes made to the various NPC pages divide the page up into repeated, tiny sections (description and appearance are too similar, and NPCs don't have official in-game descriptions anyway like items and certain locations do). We're going to have to revert those changes. --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 05:02, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
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:Yikes. How many pages was this done to? I can try to start at the beginning of the alphabet and work forward while you go backwards. --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 05:04, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
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::But isn't important to said what is the purpose of that NPC? We can change the "description" but we need to said what that NPCs does and/or what its its purpose, and the Notes said "Release/patch notes/game build history, interesting things, etc" not "all info about the npc" right? --[[User:HikaruFer|Hikaru]] 05:06, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
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:::Yes, it's important to have the information. As far as I can tell, this information was already in the notes section for most of these pages. It's not enough information to have its own section, and NPCs don't have official descriptions, so having a description section is both redundant, cluttered looking, and confusing. --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 05:08, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
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:::Though there is some archaic leftovers from the previous bad format. That's why we're updating the pages - they're inconsistent or nonexistent. --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 05:10, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
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::::Well but it seem good with NPCs page with low-info but with alot-info they look clutter (dunno if thats the word, chubby, big, a bus full of people xD). Wikias have a resumen (mostly, what the thing/person/mosnter/ is-do) and then the sub sections, and is a tiny info because the detailed one goes in others sections right? --[[User:HikaruFer|Hikaru]] 05:12, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
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:::::Not sure what you mean. Larger sections are superior to smaller sections as long as the information flows and the subject is either relatable, or there's a bunch of small things that don't belong in their own sections (such as a single point of history, if we have a lot of history, then we add a history section). Imagine reading a book with a bunch of unnecessary chapter breaks. You really only want a new section when there's a content change. The point is to divide for the sake of navigation (you can link directly to sections with URLs), and we don't want to do that here because the stuff is too similar and/or too small. --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 05:19, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
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::::::Uhmm, well in that case must be eliminated in ALL rigth? --[[User:HikaruFer|Hikaru]] 05:20, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
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:::::::I'm working on carefully fixing [[Archilus]]' page. --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 05:27, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
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:::::::Argh, I said I'd start at the beginning of the alphabet :P --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 05:29, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
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If you think the page could look better, talk about it here. Argh. The use of "you" in an article is so bad lol. More leftovers from the archaic times. --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 05:31, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
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Another minor format issue that is a major personal peeve of mine: overlinking. Terms shouldn't be linked more than once in an article, in general, when you're reading in paragraph format. Exceptions of course include template repeats. More information [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Linking#What_generally_should_not_be_linked here]. I have "remove repeated linking" in more than several edit comments :P --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 05:34, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
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:Well i can undo manually the description implementation and leave it with the info in notes as they (mostly) were. Im doing that right now, and also eliminating the overlinking, but the wording (what u did with archilus) must be other time because going to eat and sleep soon xD --[[User:HikaruFer|Hikaru]] 05:36, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
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:I did [[Armero]] so i removed the link in the Dialogue tab (because isnt template). Do that with the others? --[[User:HikaruFer|Hikaru]] 05:39, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
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::It's a lot of work keeping the wiki clean, and very painful when you generate more work for yourself. I wish someone would have stopped and helped me when I made [[Themes and Environments|this]] in the past - it was very bad, just check the version history. But all ppl did was say "that's nice" when glancing at it and I never saw the complaint in the discussion tab until years later, and after I'd learned quite a lot.
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Definitely leave the link in the dialogue section tabs. That's part of the template system and it's in its own section - so it's format and convenience. Repeated linking is, as emphasized in the wiki article, mostly an issue when reading/writing in paragraph format. --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 05:41, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
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[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Layout#Headings_and_sections Here's some more information about sections and section content]. Because we are a gaming wiki, we don't perfectly follow all of wikipedia's conventions (especially with names). We rarely encounter an article that has a section that's too big. Our problem is sections that are too small, because the game has such limited, distinct information. What was the NPC's childhood like? Did they hatch from an egg? All kinds of missing things. --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 05:49, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
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:Well that happens xD see me that i just have less than three months. The fact that the OOO-SK team doesnt make a format and practically gives the wiki to whoever wants to edit (if noone would like to edit this wiki would be empty or out-ofdate ALOT) so i dont take it "take serious" (that everything must be perfect) i like consistence but well, mistakes happen xD. I was mostly guiding by the Style Guide's format so, ni the next cases we should be really sure  what looks good, where the <nowiki>[[]]</nowiki> would appear (like, we add the bracet to the gallery caption but later we see its overlinking) and just test it in 3~5 pages, at the end of the week we probably would come out with a consistent format and we can start implemented it. It is mostly because if we took too much testing because we dunno would fit better then we will never end xD. Maybe we can ask in the Forum if we're not sure but nor all people comment, so its a slow to the process. But well, this can all be fixed :) --[[User:HikaruFer|Hikaru]] 05:59, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
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I've been thinking about an intro section, because it does LOOK better than notes underneath appearance, but notes should absolutely never be at the top of a page. I have gone to the forums regarding NPCs, but pretty much nobody except me, you, and Ciardha really (currently) care about putting the work into the pages of these guys. It should always be fun, yes, and I am sorry if I sound serious - I try not to sound mean serious, but I often come across as stiff. But yeah...[http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/107407 node 107407] - some outdated discussion mostly about dialogue. I wouldn't reply to the thread, it wouldn't be helpful, but it should show how many individuals just LOVE EDITING NPC PAGES. --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 06:08, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
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Okay, I poked around wikipedia looking at articles about people, and noticed that a lot of them have obese intro sections. So against my instinct I tried it out on the Barrus and Archilus pages. What do you think? Remember to shrink your window and pretend you have a tiny monitor when looking at these things. --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 06:14, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
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I didn't think I would like it this way, but I kinda do. It mimics the behavior of a description and lets the "appearance" section flow into the "gallery" section. I'm thinking we should sleep on this before putting any more work into it though. --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 06:16, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
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For the HoH vendors appearance, I'm thinking instead of the 5*, we say something like "[[Owlite Shield]] line" etc. and below the template say "Depends on rank." I'll put another test edit in. But definitely should sleep on it. --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 06:33, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
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:I do like it. I think thats what my eyes need xD! Well, after fixing the description's tab i would sleep :) but first, see this [http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b381/EADI/Aqui/JPEGbarrustest_zpsz91b5dzq.jpg Photoshop Time] i did (800x600) --[[User:HikaruFer|Hikaru]] 06:36, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
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:And the HoH Vendors idea is great :D it put all the items without being wrong.
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Then again that might be too repetitive. But leaving it at the 5* is inherently wrong, just as describing Bulky during only the Dark Harvest would be wrong. Argh. Definitely going to sleep on it. And yeah, I always shrink my window when testing new format, there are plenty of phone users out there. We shouldn't cater to that because we are a wiki with a huge amount of information but we should make sure pages are squishy.
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Admittedly I am disappointed that Zebulon's chromalisk tank is always a little baby, and not scaled to tier. I kid. The fact they all change outfits is amazing. --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 06:39, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
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[http://data.grammarbook.com/blog/apostrophes/apostrophes-with-words-ending-in-s/ Here I am staring at apostrophes at 1:45 in the morning] regarding Archilus's vs. Archilus'. Goodnight. --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 06:45, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
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:Lol xD. Well, as a Spanish user, Archilus's is better. But in grammar, i cant give much feedback, not a pro and i cant spell words like "appearance" without thinking twice xD. Nite~ --[[User:HikaruFer|Hikaru]] 06:50, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
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::Yeah it doesn't matter either way, so let's use the one that is better for more languages. Even though it's the Eng wiki. I have done a few more modifications to <nowiki>Archilus's'ss''s's</nowiki> page, take a look. I've uploaded pictures of Archilus so we can really see what the page will look like when it's finished. IDK if you were really gunning to do those, so I only did them for Archilus just for page testing. --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 18:22, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
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:::Its awesome~ And notes could be added "if any" like the dialogue and wares. Wegner is a good NPCpage to test, he have info + history (and i super mega support the format of history in wegner for all pages!). Biscotti and Kozma could be used for test too. I support this format :). --[[User:HikaruFer|Hikaru]] 21:06, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
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==NPC Format: Newer==
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So, I know before we discussed heavily the NPC page format, but now that we've actually been working with pages, it's of course run into several hiccups. I've decided to move the gallery down to the bottom (many game/anime wikis have a gallery at the bottom, my favorite is [http://mspaintadventures.wikia.com/wiki/Dave_Strider pages such as this one on the Homestuck wiki], but they put their "notes" ([http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/102232 trivia, which SK editors have decided to wipe out, replacing with notes]) under the gallery, which looks bad for our wiki because we don't use Wikia's base chassis.
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So I've adjusted Wegner and Archilus again...what do you think now? Wares are closer to the top...which for some NPCs, especially Basil, is more desired information anyway.
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I might not be able to do much today. Big tummy ache. --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 22:43, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
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Yeah, I am liking the gallery on the bottom much better. It's a consistent format with other wikis and equipment pages such as [[Obsidian Edge]]. The only pages that seem to break it are pages such as [[Bolted Vee]] and so on, but that's essentially a giant sortable gallery that potentially expands down forever, so having any information besides "see also" after such a thing would be very inconvenient. What I'm annoyed about now is the history section, some NPCs have a lot, most don't, but it should be in the same location on the page so people can find the information easily. But then we end up with ittybitty sections. Just argh. How I got around this before was the notes section. It's all very frustrating. --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 22:55, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
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:Well it now fit with other page's format like weapons page right? A short organization would be:
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*(What is, what does, etc, descirption but without tab)
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*Appearance (with template if its knight)
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*Wares (if any)
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*Dialogue (if any)
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*Notes (if any, and if there is notes)
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**History (if any)
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*Gallery
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*See Also
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Right? I add "notes" because it could be:
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<pre>
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==Notes==
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===History===
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Text
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</pre>
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If there is only history, wegner could be:
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<pre>
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==Notes==
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Allusions
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===History===
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Text
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</pre>
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Well, i said it to keep all as the same, and keep History with thre === right? or we can add Notes, History, Gallery with all having ==
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But we can discuss that later :) im taking care of the images so u can rest for your tummy ache ^^ take medicine to gel well~ --[[User:HikaruFer|Hikaru]] 23:06, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
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:I have incorporated this into "test 2" edits of Wegner and Archilus pages. I am a stubborn type... if I suddenly stop editing, you'll know why. Napping off the tummy ache. If you think test 2 edits look good, I'll try them out on a few other NPC pages I think will be problematic. --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 23:14, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
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:Test 3 puts the dialogue above the gallery below notes. I think I'd be happy with this overall. --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 23:26, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
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::Test 3. Dialogue between notes and gallery looks good! Not all notes-info above (in "description") but neither no-info. Just a little thing, we should write "Town Square" not "Haven Town Square", same with others (Like Garrison and Bazaar) it only exist one of each, and, in the strange case somehow SK release a new town with another town square/garrison/bazaar, take in count that we can make redirects and still, need to create new pages like Town Square (Haven, and Town Square (NewCity) xD So i think we are safe to put Town Square, Garrison, Bazaar, Arcade, and so on, only, not "Haven Bazaar" or that. --[[User:HikaruFer|Hikaru]] 00:51, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
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:::Yeah, I agree. No need for Haven before these areas. We can always fix it later in the extremely unlikely event they make more elaborate towns outside of Haven. --[[User:Novaster|Novaster]] 01:14, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
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::::Okay then :3! Im not gonna add the format because we're still testing it but only fix those Haven Etc that were left behind because i fix some yesterday. Hope you feel better with your ache ^^! --[[User:HikaruFer|Hikaru]] 01:22, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
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===[[File:Icon-notice.png|25px|Not a Proyect but related to it]] [General] Ideas and Opinions===
 
===[[File:Icon-notice.png|25px|Not a Proyect but related to it]] [General] Ideas and Opinions===
 
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Revision as of 04:09, 24 November 2015

I'm so chubby Menu Don't you think?

Jade-Hikaru

My Messages
My Contributions
My Sandbox

My Archives
Projects (Active)
Projects (Finished)


Here are discussions about the proyects im helping. Note: Most of the Sections have been edited to look good in this format, so i can check the messages better.

Active [Proyect] Acquistion Sections

Active [Proyect] NPCs Pages

Not a Proyect but related to it [General] Ideas and Opinions

Retrieved from "https://wiki.spiralknights.com/index.php?title=User_talk:HikaruFer/proyects1&oldid=228366"
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